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Evirude 175 cooling delima

trynhooker

trynhooker

Regular Contributor
"I have a 1983 175 E175TRXCTE.

"I have a 1983 175 E175TRXCTE.

I rebuilt the engine and had to get #1/2 cyl bored over as they were toast. The machine guy bored them over .064 which makes the cyl now 3.564, the remaining 4 cyl's are 3.530.

Engine will run hot as soon as I get to 34/5mph by gps..If I stay under that it runs all day as long as I don't trim it up more than a hair..

If I run it WOT trimmed all the way down it will overheat also. And at 35 mph with just a hair trimmed up it overheats.

I'm wondering if those 2 cyl's being so big are causing it to overheat?
It won't idle worth crap either so I'm also wondering if I need to change to bigger jets in the top carb? These carbs are fixed jet, no adjusting them.

I just replaced the water pump 2 days ago, and got it out in the ocean today..
And when I rebuilt the engine I cleaned the carbs as well, which doesn't help now.
Also replaced primer bulb and fuel line/filter yesterday.

If I keep pressing the enrichner it idles some times, but still dies as well.."
 
"Did you dismantle, clean, and

"Did you dismantle, clean, and rebuild all of those carburetors? If not, do so as your explanation of performance spells out fouled carburetors.

The overheating problem sounds like swelled water deflectors. See the following.

(Water Deflectors)
(J. Reeves)

Water deflectors are actually lengths of 3/8" outside diameter rubber hose, installed between the top cylinder and any cylinder beneath it, and also between the bottom cylinder and the block. The purpose of the deflectors is to have the water follow a definite path around the cylinder walls. Unfortunately the deflectors between the cylinders will at times swell sideways due to either a previous bad overheating problem, or simply due to age and salt corrosion. This causes a water flow restriction which usually allows the water to cool sufficently at low rpms but not at the higher rpms.

This hose material can be purchased reasonably at any automotive parts type store if you care to make your own, or you can purchase individual deflectors at any Evinrude/Johnson dealership at a somewhat higher cost.

Removing and installing them can be a hassle at times, but not always. I use a sharply pointed scribe with about 1/4" of the tip bent at a right angle whereas I can reach in, jab the tip sideways into the rubber, then yank it out. It's necessary to clean the seating surfaces where the ruber contacts the block with a small rat tail file to eliminate salt deposits etc. When installing the new rubber deflector, coat the deflector and the metal surfaces with WD40 which will act as lubrication to allow it to go in as easily as possible.

Make sure that you insert something into that deflector area before cutting and installing the deflectors if you make your own so that you will be certain that they are the right length and also that they will be seated properly. Usually a very small amount will be left extending about the block sealing area..... simply cut the excess off with a single edge razor blade.

Thousands of parts in my remaining stock. Not able to list them all. Let me know what you need and I'll look it up for you. Visit my eBay store at:

http://stores.ebay.com/Evinrude-Johnson-Outboard-Parts-etc?refid=store"
 
"Joe, when I did the carbs dur

"Joe, when I did the carbs during the rebuild, I didn't dismantle them but I did clean and ensure there was flow through all of the ports.

I also replaced all of the water deflectors with brand new ones, and ensured they were all seated and flush with the cylinder heads.

I will check them to see if they are damaged/swelled when I get some new gaskets.

Thanks for your help.."
 
"Fouled carburetors (runni

"Fouled carburetors (running lean) are normally the cause of powerhead failures. Always dismantle them so as to be able to clean thoroughly. Hopefully you're one of the lucky ones BUT personally..... I'd go to the trouble of making sure all the jets and passageways are perfectly clean.

If the poor idle is such that the engine hesitates and spits back at an idle, with it running, stick two fingers into the carb throats (one at a time of course), acting as a manual choke. When the engine smooths out somewhat, you've found a offending carb.

Thousands of parts in my remaining stock. Not able to list them all. Let me know what you need and I'll look it up for you. Visit my eBay store at:

http://stores.ebay.com/Evinrude-Johnson-Outboard-Parts-etc?refid=store"
 
"Exactly Joe, I believe that&#

"Exactly Joe, I believe that's what happened to #1/2 cyl,,They were scored when I got the engine and then I found the #1 carb idle fuel passages were clogged.

I'm gonna take the carbs apart again.

I read a post last night here (can't rem which one) but some1 had a powerhead bored over and someone asked if they changed the jets in the affected carb.
I'm wondering if that's what I need to do as well, since #1/2 are bored to the max(.064)..Might be starving for fuel causing the idling problems, and maybe affecting the overheat issue as well...Not enough lube/cooling in those 2 cylinders. The temp probes are also installed directly beside those cylinders."
 
No need to change jets for ove

No need to change jets for overboring. Jets require changing only when subject to extreme changes in altitude.
 
"Joe, yes I'm aware of whe

"Joe, yes I'm aware of when you usually require re-jetting, and when I mentioned it to my instructor he said it might help also since #1/2 is way oversized compared to #3-6.


Jamie, since I could only find a book for 1989 and later I was using those specs. pickup 7° +/- 1, WOT 28° +/- 1.

Can't find anyone to go with me to set WOT timing running so I set it statically.
Plus the fact that I get overheat alarm before I could even check it..lol"
 
Could You post a pick of the b

Could You post a pick of the boat showing installation height and bottom?
Is it any 'keel' or similar that might streak 'air' into the water intake at higher speeds?
 
"Morten, sry but I don't h

"Morten, sry but I don't have a camera anymore..

If your looking to see if the ant-vent plate is even with keel, and it is even. However, I have had some look when running WOT and the anti-vent plate was even with the water and water pickup wasn't out of the water..
The keel of my boat only has livewell suction on port side of keel, and my depth finder on the transom, which is greater than 12" away from the engine..

When I had the Force 120 engine the boat was identical and it never had a overheat problem."
 
"The timing can be set on that

"The timing can be set on that model as follows:

(Timing At Cranking Speed 4°)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE: If your engine has the "Fast Start" feature", you must disconnect/eliminate that feature in order to use the following method. The "Fast Start" automatically advances the spark electronically when the engine first starts, dropping it to normal when the engine reaches a certain temperture.

The full spark advance can be adjusted without have the engine running at near full throttle as follows.

To set the timing on that engine, have the s/plugs out, and have the throttle at full, set that timer base under the flywheel tight against the rubber stop on the end of the full spark timer advance stop screw (wire it against that stop if necessary).

Rig a spark tester and have the gap set to 7/16". Hook up the timing light to the #1 plug wire. Crank the engine over and set the spark advance to 4° less than what the engine calls for.

I don't know the full spark advance setting your engine calls for, but to pick a figure, say your engine calls for 28°, set the timing at 24°. The reasoning for the 4° difference is that when the engine is actually running, due to the nature of the solid state ignition componets, the engine gains the extra 4°.

If you set the engine to its true setting at cranking speed, when running it will advance beyond its limit by 4° which will set up pre-ignition causing guaranteed piston damage! You don't want that to take place.

No need to be concerned about the idle timing as that will take care of itself. The main concern is the full advance setting.

Be sure to use your own engines spark advance settings, not the one I picked out of the air here in my notes.

Thousands of parts in my remaining stock. Not able to list them all. Let me know what you need and I'll look it up for you. Visit my eBay store at:

http://stores.ebay.com/Evinrude-Johnson-Outboard-Parts-etc?refid=store"
 
"Thanks for the info again Joe

"Thanks for the info again Joe!

I don't have the $$ for the service manual and the school doesn't have one for my 1983 year. They only have the book for the 1989 > models..

Maybe someone here has or can access the manual and post my timing specs...

The 1989 spec is 7° pickup and 28° WOT so that's as close as I can get to my engine..

This engine is a CDI ignition, no VRO or fast start features, no Rev limiting ign coils either."
 
"Yes, I know that engine compl

"Yes, I know that engine completely. And you can use the timing procedure I listed with no worries.

Hopefully someone here will jump in with the timing specifications you need as I don't have that book either.

Thousands of parts in my remaining stock. Not able to list them all. Let me know what you need and I'll look it up for you. Visit my eBay store at:

http://stores.ebay.com/Evinrude-Johnson-Outboard-Parts-etc?refid=store"
 
"Joe, do you think it's wo

"Joe, do you think it's worth the effort to lower my mounting bracket one hole to see if that fixes the cooling issue or does this sound like something other than the water pickup sucking in air.

The anti-vent plate is even with keel and the engine is mounted on the bottom hole right now."
 
"If You are able to run that b

"If You are able to run that boat at 35mph (30 knots) with full trim 'in' without nosediving, something is to say it mild 'odd'.
What kind of boat do You have? Is it possible to find a similar one on the net?
At what rpm do You get this overheat?
If You make a short 'burst' up to max rpm, what do You achieve?"
 
"As Morten states.... operatin

"As Morten states.... operating the rig with full trim in without "plowing" is rather odd.

However, if it were me, I'd probably drop the engine a hole just to find out what happens.

By any chance, does that boat have a weird angle to the transom. I recall many years back that a few did and angled shims were necessary to have the engine properly installed.... don't really recall the full details though.

Another thought..... are there any obstructions on the bottom of that boat (transducer etc) that might interfere with the water flow?"
 
"I have a 1997 Trophy 2002. He

"I have a 1997 Trophy 2002. Here are the specs from the owners manual supplement I got from the internet or some forum.

Overall length=21'7", bridge clearance=7'4", Beam=8'1", Draft(drive up)=1'4, Draft(drive down)=2'9", 85 gal.

When the engine is trimmed down fully, the boat is actually not really plowing, as it does have a some bow lift.
Also if I do trim it up some when running in the ocean it does start to seesaw slightly (as if the engine is trimmed up too far creating too much bow lift). The hull however does not appear to have any deformities from sitting on the trailer.

Also I should note. These boats were sold with the Force 120 as standard engine. The max hp of the boat is 175. The 120 engine would only push the boat a max of 29 mph WOT(GPS). This 175 however pushes the boat up to 45 mph+ WOT (GPS)on calm water, of course because it is way more powerful and planes out in about 5 seconds compared to the 120 planning speed of probably 15 secs. It basically takes off like a rocket..lol

The tachometer reading is another issue. Mine is about fried as it reads randomly or sometimes not at all..However, I don't run WOT currently and to get to 35mph is only half throttle. So the tach reading is out of the equation since I overheat just past half throttle.
Quick burst to WOT gives me overheat before I really can get it there.

Nothing on the bottom is close enough to get air into the water pickup..
Going to take some pics and post so you guys can see everything,,,,BRB."
 
"'n this pic you can see t

"'n this pic you can see the rod that stops the engine from going down too far. So even with the transom slant the engine can't go past vertical'.

That is the trim-rod out at its maximum. If that is the position You are driving at, You for sure are in trouble! On the same pick I notice that the engine is 'lifted' to the max height possible at the transom.

Lowe the engine 2 holes, then trim it all the way in!!
Which prop are You using?
If 35 at half throttle and estimated 45 at full, are You running too heavy prop?? My guess You should have a 17"- 19" pitch at that speed range."
 
"Morten, I don't think you

"Morten, I don't think your looking at the rod..It's in the farthest hole inward. Pic 3 is just showing I have the engine tilted out because of the sidewalk..lol

Look at pic 1 again, u can see light thru 3 holes and the rod is in the hole closest to the transom, which u can't see good in pic 3.

You are correct about the max height, the bottom mounting hole, but even tho it's high it still puts vent plate even or just slightly above the keel.

I lowered it down 1 hole this evening and I CANNOT go any lower because of how thick the transom is.

The mounting bracket has two tits, 1 on each side on the front, and they are now on top of transom..I would need a extnsion bracket or jack plate to move the engine back 3" for them to clear and be able to lower the engine. The guy I bought it from had it on a jackplate (maybe for same reason) but he kept that of course.. My transom is 3" thick.

It does have a 14x19 pitch prop as well."
 
"That is the normal position f

"That is the normal position for the tilt-PIN.
However another thing struck me:
Are You running a 25" engine on a 20" transom???
If so You are way too deep (low).
Then we have the transom angle. You may calculate the angle here:
http://www.rocketflap.com/transom_calc.php
Normally transom angle is about 11 degree, which would allow the engine a negative trim when fully trimmed in, tilt-pin at inner hole."
 
"Well, lowering the engine dow

"Well, lowering the engine down one hole didn't have any effect on the overheat problem..I'm really thinking the problem is due to #1/2 piston's being bored to the max..

I've spent the last 2 weekends trying to also rid the engine of it's ability to idle.
Yesterday I rebuild both fuel pumps, changed plugs, inspected reeds, and replaced reed gaskets. When I finished the engine idled fine for about an hour then I shut it down. Today I had the exact same problem again with the idle/lean pop. Cleaned all 6 idle jets, removed the boats fuel system from the equation, and still the thing won't idle..
After running for a while in the river, I stopped and let it idle and die, and sometimes the starter wouldn't turn the engine over. When I would use the enrichner and some throttle the engine would start.

I'm really thinking about not spending anymore $$ on this one and just let it win...lol"
 
"the 2 normal,..overbores,are.

"the 2 normal,..overbores,are..020 and .030...we go up,1 hs jet size,for 20,and 2 jet sizes,for 30 over...and is the norm,around all the shops i have been around...this,is not causing ur overheat tho...first thing i'd do,is verify water imp is in good shape...did u inst,a compl,new,water pump kit?"
 
"JW, I didn't replace any

"JW, I didn't replace any jets when I did the re-bore.. You stated about replacing the hs jets, but the problem I'm having is with the idle. So do you suggest I replace the idle jets?

The water pump is in fact a new complete pump. There were no indications that the old pump was faulty but I replaced it anyway.

Since I did the rebuild, I have not checked the water deflectors again. The deflectors were sized correctly and installed in the proper locations, and if they were too long they would have interfered with the head gaskets."
 
"'The deflectors were size

"'The deflectors were sized correctly and installed in the proper locations, and if they were too long they would have interfered with the head gaskets.'

It is not a question of the deflectors to be 'too long' but changing shape from 'round' to 'oval'. That will restrict the water flow.
I think the best 'next steps' might be to double check/replace the deflectors and install a water pressure gauge."
 
"As Morten states...... The de

"As Morten states...... The deflectors swell sideways which effectively creates a water restriction problem.

The length of the deflector...... as per my instructive post, I cut them to be perfect after installing BUT even if slightly too long (unlikely) it wouldn't interfere with the head gasket. The head gasket would simply compress that small amount of overlap."
 
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