Has any one heard or used this engine.
I hear that is a difficulta engine to ground properly. Any true to this myth?
Any manuals we can purchase?
Has any one heard or used this engine.
I hear that is a difficulta engine to ground properly. Any true to this myth?
Any manuals we can purchase?
To what negative consequances could lead the crankcase high pressure in the industrial diesel engines?
" I own a Volvo MD 22L that is a twin brother in green of the Perkins Prima 50. It is a very modern engine with overhead cam shaft. This engine do not use the block a ground, and each electrical component (alternator, sensors etc., uses a ground wire connection. I'm not aware of any particular ground problem. "
Recent owner of a Prima 50, 1990 on a sail boat. I am until now - still few time - quite happy with this engine, eventhough I have read this is the worst engine build by Perkins. Will see.
It emits a white smoke through the exhaust pipe. And does not stop even when the engine is warm. Any tips, any guesses?
"I have a Perkins Prima 50, installed in our Moody 44 from 1992. We purchased the boat 1n 2001 and from then onwards up to Engine hours 1948hrs no problems except a duff rev counter. Normally we run at 2400 RPM for 7.5 knots. My belief is that when an engine is running smoothly, dont touch it, except for oil & filter changes every 100 hrs or once per year regardless. White smoke indicates unburned or dirty fuel, so firstly get rid of old fuel, clean the tank & have the injectors checked. You might find this cures the problem !!!!"
I have a Jeanneau Sun Magic 44 with Perkins Prima. I think it is very reliable but difficult to repair (especially engin timing ) unless you have the Repair Manual. For grounding mine had a dedicated relay to ground the engine block only during start sequence!
So far I service the engine by myself and I ve done as far as replacing the Timing Belt and the fresh water pump
"I have a Perkins Prima M 50 and I went back and forth in the Virgin Island from Canada.
This engine start well, is reliable and powerfull.
The engine have an isolated ground to protect it from electrolysis.
The weakness of this engine is the electrical system ( harness, control pannel, starter )not designed for marine use.
The replacement parts are expensive and hard to find ( just try to find an oil filter for this motor in USA )."
I've had great luck with Trans Atlantic Diesel for parts....they seem to be able to get anthing for it.
"Trans Atlantic Diesel is a good source for parts, however ALL sources I have found for parts for the M50 are expensive beyond belief. Parts are easily 4-5 times as expensive as they would be for any normal motor ... even a marine motor. Examples starter $1000.00, control panel $1300.00, wiring harness $900.00 ... lest we not forget, this is a 50HP 4 cylinder ... if you need an injection pump ... good luck. If you are persistent and go to other sources, you can source some of these parts at 40% less than the list prices quoted above.
The motor will keep running and running for a long time ... but it will bleed you to death on the price of parts. I am considering repower with a Yanmar, due to the parts pricing and the constant need to have parts shipped from England.
"Filters are easily available in the US, from FRAM and some from NAPA
NAPA Filter Gold 3166 (Fuel)
FRAM P3711 (Fuel) == NAPA 3124
FRAM PH 25 (Oil) – NAPA cross reference filter doesn’t fit my boat as the can is 1/2" longer and cannot be installed.
I think the P3711 is the spin on fuel filter by the injection pump (i am hundreds of mile from the boat now), the other fuel filter is for the fuel water separator and may be different on your application."
"Hello, do you know where I can buy such a control panel for the m50? I could not find anything in the web. If possible I would take a used or reconditioned part also. Any tips, any guesses???"
"TransAtlantic diesel priced the panel at $1300 a couple of years ago. ANY Perkins diesel ealer (perkins.com) can get you the panel. I'd be surprised if you can find a "reconditioned" one. The VDO instruments can be sourced, as well as the push bitton switches (from any Perkins dealer), and the remainder could probably be rebuild by a TV or Radio repair shop ... if you can find one of those. I replaced my keyswitch with a toggle. The panel is pretty simple, some diodes, gauges, 3 Momentary ON switches.
I replaced the VDO lenses and a couple of Momentary on switches and the panel works as if it were new after 18 years.
This weekend the STOP button refused to stop the engine . Had to stop it by shutting off the diesel pump. What might be the cause? any ideas, anyone?"
Perkins Prima Series M50 inboard engine
On my boat since 1992.
only 1200 hours.
Trouble : Engine suddenly blocked while turning at 1800 rpm (no problem of heating nor lubrification).
Technician indicates camshaft being broken (distribution belt is OK and had been replaced)!
Repair shop says this engine has a very bad reputation and is not worth to be repaired.
Any other such occurences ?
Thank you for your answers.
"Many people would disagree with the technicians claim. This is a marinized version of the same engine that has been used with great success on thousands of Land Rovers. Mine has 2600 hours and is running strong, at the beginning of each season I run it at over 3000 rpm to make sure everything is operating well. Diesel shops make much more money with less effort by selling you a new engine--they make several thousand dollars on the new engine and then the hourly cost for installation. It is also a free wheeling engine, so when the cam shaft broke there should not have been a problem with the pistons hitting the valves unless a valve was held down (unlikely) in the process. Check with Trans Atlantic Diesel in Virginia for part availability."
"I have about 10K hours, parts have to be shipped from England, but the engine is rock solid. Most marine mechanics I have asked casually about the Perkins M series say it will keep running when others may fail. Sherry at TransAtlantic Diesel will find you whatever you need. Good luck."
"Interesting comments on the M50. The presence of this engine was part of the reason for purchasing the sailboat that I eventually shipped to Canada. I've been running it, sometimes quite hard, for 4 years with almost no issues. The only 2 events I've had was 1. sailing in 45 knots with a clogged fuel filter (the previous owner didn't have a primary!) and 2. just a few weeks ago a bizarre problem involving the adapter plate between the engine and the raw water pump - the tab on the adapter plate had worn and the shaft on the pump had an "S" shape as a result. Engine ran fine, just couldn't cool! I'm suspect that this area had been mishandled in the past given that we had to rebore the mounting machine screw holes for the "dust plate".
I usually run at 1800, but the efficiency curves suggest good to about 2000. I read that a few people run up at 2400. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?"
"Had same problem with bracket for raw water pump where the tang that mounts to camshaft drives the water pump. Perkins makes a special alignment tool (I had the machine shop guy make me a different design alignment tool). If the bracket is ever removed, it must be realigned with the tool, and THEN have the bolts tightened. Otherwise you have a diesel driven lathe that will slowly grind the ends off the tang until it is only a post!!!"
I have volvo MD22 in my boat for 15 years.I would like to do complete overhaul.I beleive perkins prima engine is exactly the same engine.Are the parts inter changable.And if so would they be cheaper.Any help would be appreciated
"unable to start the engine, wont crank at all, but had been running and starting well, checked starter/solenoid OK, however found 4 lts water in the sump and clean water system low. any ideas where the transfer is happening in the engine?"
Assuming the starter is actually trying to turn her over but can't, with water in the sump as you found I'd suggest water lock and cylinder head gasket gone. Head off, clean up, crack check and service the head. You can prove it by removing the injectors and see if she turns then.
All the best.
Wanted set of injectors for a Prima diesel.
Wanted Cylinder head for Prima diesel
"I own a M50 in a beneteau 41 of 1989 vintage. Since owing the boat I have put 300 hrs on the engine bringing to total to 1750. Overall the performance has been good, the M50 is powerful and reliable my only let down was a broken fuel pump which mercifully was at the dock. Masive blue smoke on start up always there but getting worse. some smoke when at operating temperature always there but not getting worse. Local machnic familar with Perkins renewed timeing belt and had injectors cleaned & reset. No improvement. It is suggested that injector pump timing may be off or worn. Before getting into this probably expensive adventure can anyone offer views or experiance. Thanks in advancve."
"If it is indeed blue smoke, that is not good. Blue smoke means burning oil. If it is white smoke you will have a pronounced acrid unburned diesel smell.
Possibly worn rings. Possibly the valve stem seals and oil is seeping down them into the chamber when she is stopped which burns off as she heats up. How is the oil level over time? Does she use much? Are you using the correct grade of oil? Over what time period have you noticed it getting worse? If the power and general running are good, it is unlikely to be a timing issue, especially if it goes away when warm.
Maybe pull the head first and get it checked and the valves done with new vavles/guides and/or seals. If that doesn't fix it, you haven't lost a lot when the rest is done."
"Hi Glen, Tks yr comments.
It is blue smoke however the unit burns little oil about 1 to 1.5ltr per 100 hrs. Also the old oil is quite clean, not the black stuff that came out of my Kabota. I have noticed that there is a slight film of oil where the exhaust hits the water. The problem has got worse over the last 4 months and this coincides with a increase in fuel consumption from about 2.7 lrs hr to 3.2 ltrs hr. Can a diesel engine burn excess fuel when hot but blow it out as unburnt when cold ? I have been told "live with it, its typical of the M50". Not sure I want to believe this. Can others on this board comment. Any thoughts on nominal fuel consumption of this engine in a 17000 lb easily driven hull doing 6.8 to7 knots at 2200 to 2400 rpm. I would like to learn as much as I can from real world experance before going back to the repair shop. Again thanks in advance for comments.
"From what you have told us, I'd be guessing a simple injector service will mostly fix her up. Maybe injector pump as well, but try just the injectors first. It can be difficult to tell the difference in smoke colour, but the sheen on the water is a giveaway for incomplete combustion. Sounds like rings are ok given the lack of oil consumption. Most likely injectors, and worst case the valve guides/seals as well.
As for this being normal, well my opinion is no. I don't have M50 experience, but you can be prety sure she didn't start her life like that, and if you have noticed a difference in fuel consumption then something is changing rapdily.
Keep us up with the outcome.
"Thanks Glen. I will take boat to mechanics dock in new year. He will try adjusting injector pump timing at his dock as results can only be determined from cold start. (As a general note I am advised that it is essential to use a fuel additive as modern fuel has no lubricating properties for the pump.) film on the water leads me to suspect pump however the smoke leads me to suspect a leaking valve guide. I will up date the board in the new year.
Seasons Greetings to all, Bob."
I was using such an engine up to this summer.
The heavy blue smoke when engine has not been used for times, seems just to be a consequence of oil dripping and staying in a low part of one chamber. It is really impressive when first ignited ! It does not smoke as this when the engine is regularly used. I would not bother this or do anything ! My engine did not burn oil otherwise.
The only thing was to start the engine after having it turned with ths tarter in order to have the oil ready to lubricate properly.
"Reacting further to this debate :
I read the questions Perkins M 50 users ask.
I would like to share a few comments with you.
Sorry for my poor English.
1. I have been working on mechanics since 45 years. Cars, motorbikes, mowing machines, 2 stroke, 4 stroke engines, gas and diesel, boat engines. Very different kinds. Sometimes alone, sometimes with professionnals. During all these years, I have never had any motor break or any problem caused by these works.
But my M 50 engine broke this summer !
I had changed the timing belt, not in a worshop but with a professional mechanic. The motor was running perfect afterwards. Timing was ok. I had measured with a special tool the tension on the belt before the exchange, and I had tightened the new one the same way.
The engined runned perfectly about 20 hours, then broke the entire cylindre head, valves, etc. It was normally lubricated, normal temperature, running 1,800 rpm for 1/2 hour.
The belt is in place, as well as the tightening wheel. There is no apparent dammage on the belt itself showing that it would have jumped on one of the three axles.
Belgian import office in Antwerps explains that the break has been a consequence of an improper tightening, for I have not used the Perkins tools ...
I'm afraid of an engine on which one cannot work by himself, especially on a boat, much more difficult to bring to a workshop than a car ...
2. I worked on the engine with the Perkins workshop book.
Can you realize that, when one takes out the cover to verify the valves, as this cover is part of the holding of the camshaft (3 shaft bearings), the camshaft itself is loosed. One needs 3 different original Perkins tools to hold the camshaft properly, in order just to verify or work on the valves ... Such a basic, simple and usual work...
3. On a boat, the engine should be of the type one owner can work on, any place where a problem comes. This is not the case of the M50.
4. I share with other owners the trouble of that oil burning in a heavy blue smoke fog, when the engine has not been used for several weeks, when oil is deep under in engine bloc. This did not worry me though, as the engine was not consuming oil.
5. I share with other owners a problem when the engine had to be stopped : the command was sometimes not answering on the control pannel.
6. I have read that some other users have other heavy problems, with water entering the engine. It did not occur to me.
I used this engine about 1,100 hours in a few years. It was doing fine. BUT I have to say that I'm not happy to lose an engine after 1,300 hours, when it should have runned 10,000 !
The timing belt system is not good to be used on a boat, in humid conditions.
I'm replacing this engine with another, with timing gear or chain, of an elder conception, slower engine, with basic mechanic, something I can work on myself without ruining it !
Good luck to you all.
I hope this testimony can help you in some way.
Marc Van Eerdewgeh