Evinrude ETEC or HondaSuzuki 4 stroke

Gents - a question for those o

Gents - a question for those of you in the trade.

"She who might be obeyed" has finally consented to the replacement of the old boat as the dealers are giving some good prices at the moment for complete packages and the old boat and motor are spending more time at weekends on the beach than on the water.

One particular make of boat I've seen and tried can come with either an Evinrude E-TEC 60HP or a Suzuki/Honda 4 stroke 50HP.

Does anyone have any experiance with these engines or are they pretty much equally reliable/economical.

The boat I'm looking at is recommemded for 30 - 70 HP

"I would go for the E-Tech any

"I would go for the E-Tech any time.
I sold quite some of the 'old' Evinrude/Johs 4 strokes until the E-techs came on the market -then?
Did some comparison tests and the E-techs killed the 4-strokes in the most. Only situation where the 4-strokes 'won', was down wind at idle. That had to do with smoke/smell and sound level. However in total - I sold no more of the 4-strokes!"

"I asked this same question a

"I asked this same question a few weeks ago. I have it narrowed down to a Honda 90, Suzuki 90/115 or ETEC 115. The consensus in the Johnson forum was the ETEC - in the Suzuki forum it was Suzuki - I should've known.

Anyway, for me it comes down to price - this is a possible repower for me. Out of all the prices I was quoted, here they are - installed, gauges, etc.

Suzuki 90 - $8200
ETEC 115 - $9000 (reusing my cables & controls & possibly prop tho)
Honda 90 - $9000
Suzuki 115 - $9800

I eliminated the ETEC right away. I'm sure it's a great motor, but why worry about a 2 stroke for the same money? My point is, the VRO system on my Johnson caused an issue on my current motor - sure it was 10yrs down the road, but why risk that again? Why buy expensive oil just to burn? I love their marketing - especially the "tug of war" video on their website & I love 2 stroke "out of the hole" power, but not that much. I still haven't made up my mind on the other 3 though."

"'I'm sure it's a

"'I'm sure it's a great motor, but why worry about a 2 stroke for the same money?'
Could You please explain that for me?
'Why buy expensive oil just to burn? '
Is it better to throw it away?
1 Gal X-100 = 500 Gal of fuel. How much do You consume between oil changes?"

"I guess my point lies in the

"I guess my point lies in the issues I had w/ my VRO system. I'll be honest, I'm not exactly sure how the ETEC works - I do know that it requires a separate oil tank though, which means a secondary injection system. Now, it may not necessarily have the same inherent issues that VRO had (crappy, expensive pump design), but it is extra parts that could potentially wear out.

You're right, it's not better to throw it away. I guess I'd drop it off at a recycling center, but I agree, the money is wasted.

Like I said though, for ME, it comes down to price. For basically the same money, but reusing many of my OLD components, I'd be well into 4 stroke territory. Two of my hatreds towards my Johnson 90 are sound and smoke - I'm on a 16' flats boat and only 3' away from the motor. So, for ME, a 4 stroke just makes more sense.

Now, a question for you -
How long do you see ETEC being around? It's basically on an island all its own. I think Evinrude has a good thing going, but 4 stroke is dominating the marketshare - I could honestly see Evinrude going that route in a few years. That doesn't make the ETECs bad motors, but if it's a dying technology, why buy one? Are you out shopping for a projection TV? Dial-up internet?"

"Let me answer in a way You ma

"Let me answer in a way You may not have expected.
I think it is a bigger chance the an E-tec bought today will run 20 years, than any 4-strokes on the market!
I think the E-tech technology will survive on these kind of applications (light engines)longer than the 4-strokes. All 4-strokes of today are based on components from the auto industry. With the demands and changes of power plants in this industry, the future power plants might not be suitable at all for our use. Could You imagine a hybrid under the cowling and 400 Lbs of battery pack in the boat?
Providing BRP does not belly over, I would guess the 2-stroke E-tech will stay on for a very long time."

"Very good points made by all,

"Very good points made by all, keep it coming since I will me in the market for a Motor maybe 2 years from today. My 1987 Evinrude 22 year motor kicks $%&"

"In our area you are VERY hard

"In our area you are VERY hard pressed to see any OMC engines on boats anymore. I know of 1 with newer twin Evinrudes. The 2 longtime (1 back to the 60's the other 80's) local OMC dealers are gone now and carry Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki. Honda has lost ground and may be the next to be dropped by these 2 dealers...Suzuki has made the bigest new gains in the past 2 years. The dealers are fed up with Honda as they aren't supporting the product and they are going to warranty service from Honda Car Dealers (Already in Ontario and 1 other province...forget which one) I too got burned by VRO on an engine 10 months old...was the last OMC I owned. (and I had lots of them prior)"

"Some years ago when OMC went

"Some years ago when OMC went bankrupt, the whole scenario changed. Dealers had to survive, and in stead of fighting it out, they jumped ship and went mainly for the Japanese producers. Honda, Suzuki, Tohatsu, Nissan got a jumping start. What is left today: Both Nissan and Tohatsu are gone. Who will be the next? My guess will be that Suzuki will be the one closing shop when it comes to outboards, if not even more of the company goes down, and I have some difficulties seeing even Honda too long on the market as well as outboard producer. The ones that might be able to hang on the longest will probably be Brunswick, BRP and Yamaha. But only time will tell."

"Morten, the oldest OMC dealer

"Morten, the oldest OMC dealer here added Yamaha in the 80's and just before OMC went under the units out the door were probally 40% OMC and 60% Yamaha. Those were larger engines...kickers were more like 80% Yamaha and 20% OMC. The Ficht's were the death nail for OMC. I truly believe that most guys here were hoping that once the VRO was replaced that OMC 's next generation of oil injected engines could compete with the Japanese. Everyone wanted a cheaper alternative..if it was reliable. When Ficht's were routinely blowing up with less than 100hrs on the powerheads that was it. Sales slowed and the high warranty claims put OMC under. We had whale watching boats that went through 4-5 powerheads under warranty just to get through a season. I haven't seen an OMC on a whale watching boat since and there are over 60 of them working out of our harbour. Dealers didn't jump ship first, the buying public here did. Its too bad because the E-Tec may be a great engine but if you've been bitten twice..it will take awhile to forget the sting!"

"The Ficht and bankruptcy era

"The Ficht and bankruptcy era was in fact my 'golden years'. I managed to keep spares coming in and got quite some new customers from dealers that jumped ship. As for the Ficht'a, I had a deal with the distributor and that drowned my capacity. As it all started to get straightened out, I managed to keep on for some more years until I 'retired' myself and sold out. For sure the Yamaha's made a great impasse, but even they had their problems. Big 4-strokes on ribs burned valves and pistons faster than a baker could make bread! I sold quite a number of Evinrude (Suzuki) 4-strokes on ribs, 100% of the ones installed on rib's broke the swivel bracket and fell off the boat!!!! When they turned into Johnson they had a new bracket. The Ficht's were not what killed OMC, it was more like GM today: too big debts! Unfortunately they tried to save the company by prematurely release the Ficht's, and it failed. The introduction of the 60 degree was in fact quite a success and probably kept it running a bit longer.
They all have and have had their issues."

"So another question for you a

"So another question for you all:-

How does the E-TEC engine work - I thought it was a efficient 2 stroke based on a seperate oil injection (DFI FICHT style - thru crankcase and cylinder injectors) and the only place the fuel went was straight into the injector where it mixes with the oil in the cylinder, and the valve/injector arrangement means no fuel is transferred into the cylinder until the exhaust cycle is completed. Is this roughly correct.

Also the answers here seem to be looking to the past - older models. I know FICHT was bad - I've seen an engine cowling where FICHT has been changed to FUCHT - but I had a Datsun car in the early 80's and it was a dog, it rusted through the bodywork in no time and burned engine oil at 400 MPG. Datsun became Nissan in the mid 80's and I had two Nissan's in the 90's and nothing but nothing ever went wrong. the only reason I changed them was because of a) having kids and b) emigrating.

Does anyone out there have any experience with the current E-TEC's vs. 4 strokes. Price is not an issue here as the 60 HP E-TEC is being offered for the same price as the Suzuki 50 HP 4 stroke.

Which is quietest
Which is the most fuel efficient
Which is the most reliable

So far Morten is the only one to come forward with any personal experiance."

"There are no big differences

"There are no big differences in way of operation between the Ficht's and E-tec. I just think they decided to loose the 'Ficht' name, which was the name of the original inventor.
The principle is the same as a direct injected diesel. Fuel injectors on each cyl head injects the fuel straight into the combustion chamber. Air and oil-mist is sucked in the normal way through the crank case. The oil is injected by an injector similar to the fuel injector. There is no oil-fuel mix going on, except for a small amount mixed into the fuel to lubricate the injectors. Two major things may have changed from Ficht to E-tec. One is that all electronics are now in the EMM, including charge regulator. The second and perhaps most interesting is the engine is self sufficient with power, except for the starter motor. That means the 40 HP version may be delivered even as hand started!
The quietest: At idle that will probably be the 4-stroke, but at planning and above it looks like the E-tech may catch up.
The most fuel efficient: Difficult to say, as here comes prop eficiency, power to wheight, type of usage into the play. I would give the E-tech an advantage for mixed use. 4-stroke perhaps better at low idle, but the E-tech has the hole-shot, power-to-weight advantage. Then the BRP props are superior to any of both Suzuki and Honda!
The most reliable: Anything will break sooner or later. A broken timing belt may make a havoc, as well as a failing oil-injector. However looking at a 20 years prospected life time, I will still go for the E-tech."

"OK
Decision time came and we

"OK
Decision time came and went and I've decided to go with the E-TEC.
Why - Warranty, less moving parts and weight (not much in them on this one, but more horses with the E-tec)."

"Good luck with Your chioce!

"Good luck with Your chioce!
try to get the dealer to 'throw in' a diagnostic cable, and program either for lap-top or Palm whatever You prefer. They state that full power may be used from first start, I would run it in on the factory setting of 2% before changing to 1% and X-100 oil. If You have the cable and program, You may anytime revert to 2% if You run out of X-100 and keep on with 'ordinary' TCW-3."

Its probably in the manual but

Its probably in the manual but how many hours do you run the engine in for

"One of the 'advertising&#

"One of the 'advertising' gimmicks was 'full power from first start', indicating no official running in period. Not sure if that still stands. However I used to recommend the new owners at least the first oil-tank or minimum 2-3 fuel tanks. Just remember that whatever You do, there is no help in adding oil in the fuel on this engine!!!
Another gimmick, this engine has a 'self preservation mode'. That means that starting in a special way with throttle position and key 'ON' it will double oil the engine and shut down automatically after flushing, and the engine may be left for storage. I used the same procedure whenever taking an engine out of winter storage at the first start. Read the manual BEFORE start. Will You get the engine readily installed, or delivered in a box?"

It will be installed by the de

It will be installed by the dealer.

"Andrew, check out this attach

"Andrew, check out this attachment on the OMC VRO. I just saw the damage to a Merc. 50 4 stroke, I believe it was, caused by sludge build-up in the sump. This motor was dealer serviced each year since new in '03. The oil pic-up was clogged and the sump wouldn't drain because the drain opening was completely blocked. The mech. at first gave me a chunk of "black clay" and asked me what it was. I shrugged. Then he showed me.
Point being, everyone thinks 4 strokes are God's gift to Outboards. Yes, they're great motors but you can have just as many horror stories. A motor is a motor.
I'd go w/the e-tech any day.

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"C.DeF. -

Informative read

"C.DeF. -

Informative read. After my rebuild, as per my mechanic's request (in order to warranty work), my VRO has been disabled and I now premix. It does give me piece of mind that I always have a solid ratio going into my motor, but it does smoke more than I'd like at idle b/c of the heavier than required ratio (one thing about VRO that I do miss). I did just install a new fuel pump yesterday - you kinda make me want to install the whole system again.

Anyway, getting off topic - to the OP - congrats on your purchase. Give a quick review here when you get the boat back."