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Picking up 12 volts for petronix ignition

R

rcahill31

Regular Contributor
"I am installing a petronix ig

"I am installing a petronix ign. and was told that it is best to get the 12 volt power source from the ignition, I have a 88 5.7 omc four winns and after looking how to wire in to the ignition and bring the wire back I figure there has to be a closer source, if you come off the alternator do you use the orange wire and tie in there?"
 
"Ron...see pic below, for the

"Ron...see pic below, for the old points system you should have +12 at the +positive side of the coil on the Purple/Black wire during starting and around 9v on the Purple/Red wire while running. Now the Purple/Red wire is your resistor wire so that voltage is too low for the Pertronix but if you follow it back on the diagram you will see it come out of a splice off the alternator. If you tap into that splice in front of the resistor wire then you'll have 12v

251793.jpg
"
 
"Bob, Thank you for the reply,

"Bob, Thank you for the reply, I do not know if I am correct in what I did but I eliminated the resistor wire and I ran a new 12 gauge wire from the starter to the positive side of the coil where I should have a full 12 volts?"
 
"Most guys leave the resistor

"Most guys leave the resistor wire but tape off the end incase they want/need to go back to points. For the starter, where did you attach your wire, you don't want 12v active all the time (hard to turn off) but you need it while starting and running too."
 
"Bob, That is what I did I cut

"Bob, That is what I did I cut the wire and put a twist cap on it and taped it, I took the power from the battery hook up on the starter and I have a battery selector switch that we always turn off when we are not using the boat, I also bought the esa module here from marine engine so I would not have to do the diode fix, also thinking about the coil and maybe will go with the petronix coil, I kept my old set of points and that just in case, thanks again"
 
Ronald you didn't specify

Ronald you didn't specify but I'm assuming you're installing a Pertronix coil? Just checking because if you are just putting in the Pertronix ignitor with your stock coil you will still need the resistor wire or you will smoke the ignitor module.
 
"Chuck, I started the engine w

"Chuck, I started the engine with the old coil and the resistor wire removed, it started but ran a little rough and died so I cranked it again with no pop so I left it sit thinking I flooded it some, rechecked all connections and after a couple of hours I tried to restart the engine and it started right up ran up to 2000 rpm and back and when I let it idle it would not so after a couple of tries it still would not idle so I turned it off and ordered a Petronix coil should have it today or Mon., I hope I did not smoke the module if not then the resistor wire will not be needed according to Petonix."
 
"Yeah, the Pertronix coil has

"Yeah, the Pertronix coil has the resistor built in so it needs 12 volts to it. I've been running the Pertronix Ignitor in my 4.3L (original coil) for two seasons now with no problems. If you wanted you could hook the res wire back up and try it this weekend while you wait."
 
"The piece below is right off

"The piece below is right off the Pertronix site, I guess bottom line is that if using the old coil that requires an external resistor then you need to leave the resistor wire attached to the + side of the coil and attach the module plus wire in front of the resistor wire.




Q. The engine will not start or runs rough. Are there any tests that I can do?
A. Yes, remove the red Ignitor™ wire from the coil positive terminal. Connect a jumper wire from
the positive side of the battery directly to the red Ignitor™ wire. If the engine starts and runs
well, you may have a low voltage problem. Remember this is just a test and not intended for
permanent installation. Read “ How to correct a low voltage poblem”
Q. How to correct a low voltage problem?
A. First, if you have an external ballast resistor, connect the red Ignitor™ wire to the ignition wire
prior to the ballast resistor. Second, if you do not have a ballast resistor you must locate a 12
volt source that is controlled by the ignition switch to connect the red Ignitor™ wire to."
 
"Bob, I installed a new petron

"Bob, I installed a new petronix coil this morning and it behaves as it did with the other coil, it started but not right up and ran and after letting it run around 2000 rpm I pulled the throttle back as if to shift and it died and would not restart again not even a pop, I have the red wire from the starter solenoid, another red from the igniter and the striped wire that goes to the starter solenoid, on the neg. post I have the black wire from the igniter and the grey wire from the esa module and the grey wire from the main connector that join together on the neg. side, so from here does anyone have a suggestion what to do next?"
 
"How was it running with the p

"How was it running with the points? Could be a number of things contributing here, unrelated to the new parts."
 
Was it one of their Flamethrow

Was it one of their Flamethrower coils? and if so what was the internal resistance 1.5 or 3 ohms?
 
"It was running fine on the po

"It was running fine on the points Chuck I just wanted to go electronic, Bob the coil is a flame thrower 11, up to 45,000 volts and has a low resistance of 0.6 ohms Model 45111, I also ordered from marine eng.com a new esa module which is suppose to be compatible with the petronix, I installed that before the igniter;s and the Model on that was CDI PN 123-9898-P"
 
"Ron, do you have the original

"Ron, do you have the original Ignitor or the "Ignitor 2"? Your #45111 coil (Flamethrower 2) should only be used with the "Ignitor 2" module. With the Ignitor 1 you will need a coil with the proper resistance or reconnect your original resistor wire. The higher current will likely damage the module. If your ignitor is indeed the original (not ignitor 2) then for testing purposes I would reinstall the original coil and reconnect the res wire. Then do as Bob says above and connect the red lead from the module to a 12v source. Simplest place would be the terminal on the back of the alternator with the red/blue wire. It is a keyed 12v source."
 
"Chuck, I am doing the same th

"Chuck, I am doing the same thing a ronald. My boat is running fine,(on muffs, havent put on lake yet( I hooked up the red lead wire from the module to the alt, didnt cut any wires, so the resistor wire is still in place. Is this the correct way to do it? Also have the new ESA, as my other one wasnt working at all (not installed yet)
thanks"
 
"Chuck, I have the igniter 11

"Chuck, I have the igniter 11 prt 91582, I took the power from the starter solenoid but soon as the weather clears I will change it over to the alternator, some of the information says to be sure and attach the distributor ground wire I never saw one or did I remove one."
 
"Ron...it looks to me like you

"Ron...it looks to me like you have the correct CDI (ESA) PN, but as Chuck pointed out it's very important to know which Ignitor module you are using. If it's I then you have the wrong Flame Thrower coil, if it's II then it should be the right coil. Let us know."
 
"Bob, I have the flame thrower

"Bob, I have the flame thrower no. 2 and the coil to match it, if I damaged the flame thrower no.2 when I used the old coil without the resistance wire do you have any idea how it would act?"
 
"I forgot to mention that the

"I forgot to mention that the flamethrower 2 which I have has been designed to sense high current levels and shut off before damage occurs, if that is the case I should be okay, I will check for low voltage when the weather clears"
 
"The Pertronix PN 91582 is for

"The Pertronix PN 91582 is for a Prestolite distributor, is that what you have? I know the Ignitor II is not supposed to have the problems that Ignitor I did when the ignition was left on by accident, but the symptoms were it just simply wouldn't start (no spark), module was fried."
 
"Bob, Yes I have a screw down

"Bob, Yes I have a screw down prestolite distributor and with the igniter 11 if you leave the key on it does not matter as with the igniter 1 which was a problem"
 
OK...then you have all the cor

OK...then you have all the correct parts to make this work well. I would go back and do the Pertronix test where you simply run a jumper wire from the battery right to the red wire on the ignitor and see how it starts and runs. If you can't get that far then I would put it all back to original with the points and make sure it runs and then start over again with the conversion until either you find a problem or a faulty component.
 
"Yep..sounds like you have mat

"Yep..sounds like you have matching parts. You should be able to wire straight from the alt connection to the coil+ post and also connect the red ignitor 2 lead to the coil + post.
The ignitor 2 does protect itself from overcurrent by shutting itself off. To reset it requires killing the power to it. Since you were wired straight from the battery, you would need to disconnect it for the reset to take place and may be why it would not re-start. This is a good reason to wire to a keyed source. Next question is what could be causing overcurrent? Check to make sure all your connections are clean and tight. Also you may need to add an external ground wire from your distributor plate to a good engine ground."
 
"Chuck,I will check all connec

"Chuck,I will check all connections and when you mentioned a ground for the distributor I plan on cleaning the clamp to the engine block for a good ground and when it starts and runs I will post a message, thanks again"
 
""Bob the coil is a flame

""Bob the coil is a flame thrower 11, up to 45,000 volts and has a low resistance of 0.6 ohms Model 45111, I also ordered from marine eng.com a new esa module which is suppose to be compatible with the petronix, I installed that before the igniter;s and the Model on that was CDI PN 123-9898-P" I have the same setup and had same problem. Here's the fix CDI says that with the .6 ohm coil you need to add 2.5 ohm resistor in positive side of coil, for total of about 3 ohms. If resistor wire is in place the 1.5 + .6 + 1 ohm will do. I put in the Napa marine one that's 1.2 strapped to the coil and runs great. With 12 volts running to it it overheated which caused similar problems. CDI says without proper resistance volts/ohms= 4 that you will also burn out the new ESA. If you got a new one the instructions should tell you that. On the Pertronix side if you put resistor back run the red wire to the alternator side of it and will work great."
 
That's interesting Glen. M

That's interesting Glen. Makes me wonder if there's really much advantage to the Ignitor 2 over the 1 in this application....
Your thoughts?
 
"Yep, the l will fry if you le

"Yep, the l will fry if you leave the key in the on position for about 15 seconds or less. The ll won't. Plus they say better performance. If you want the CDI doc's on wiring and coil resistance let me know."
 
"Glenn, looks like we have the

"Glenn, looks like we have the same equipment, petronix just returned my call and answered my questions but also said the ESA module from CDI the one we have said it would work fine but the information you have says not, so tell me if I am wrong, if I hook the resistor wire back on the coil and run the red 12 gauge wire for power back to the alternator that will take care of the ESA module problem or do I still need to add more ohms resistance. What is the NAPA product a wire or as you said you strapped it to the coil? The CDI PN123-9898-P is the one I just bought I read the instructions and was wondering how to increase the resistance when the call from petronix came in and said it would work so I am happy you posted Glenn"
 
I think Napa # is ECH ICR23 &#

I think Napa # is ECH ICR23 (only 1.2 ohm they have)ask for marine it has a sealed back about $8 Sierra cross references to it but is twice as expensive. Pertronix is right the Ignitor will work fine but 12v to .6 ohm coil will overheat it and and cause ESA to burn out as you've doulded the amperage. Desired is 4 amps resistance voltage/resistance= 4 amps. Your setup is 12/.6= 20 or 5 times nominal value. Even with resistor wire its 12/2.1=5.7 amps 42% higher. That's why Pertronix has that ESA resistor fix of 1.5 ohms on top of the stock 1.5 resistance coil. The Napa resistor replaces the fix. I would go with CDI's reccomendation since they are the ones hat make the ESA. They replaced mine for free when I burned them out with your setup which is on both engines. If you don't upgrade the coil then the stcok resistance setup is fine with the CDI ESA's. On the hookup as long as the red wire is hooked to the same place as the resistor is to the alternator its fine.
 
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