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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mechanicsville, MD, usa
    Posts
    6

    Default The motor was being serviced f

    The motor was being serviced for normal stuff up and lower fluids. Next they replaced the timing belt. After the belt was replaced now we have problems with compression in cylinder 5 and it appears to be a bent exhaust valve. Currently the shop is pulling down the motor to check the head and of course replace the bent valve. Is there anything else that I need to make certain the repair shop checks or should fix? If the valve repair is successful does this repair in any way shorten the life of the motor or make it less reliable? Thanks for your help in advance.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,676

    Default How many hours on that engine?

    How many hours on that engine?
    CHawk 25 DLX

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mechanicsville, MD, usa
    Posts
    6

    Default ~600 hours

    ~600 hours

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    3,676

    Default "Joe - There are some Honda ma

    "Joe - There are some Honda master mechanics on this site, so I will defer to them.

    HOWEVER, I've not heard of a bent valve on that engine before, and I don't think a timing belt should normally require replacement at 600 hours. Sounds to me like somebody at the shop screwed up and set up the timing wrong when they changed the timing belt."
    CHawk 25 DLX

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    El Cajon, Ca., USA
    Posts
    107

    Default "I agree W D Neal, someone ble

    "I agree W D Neal, someone blew it when the timing belt was replaced."

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    perth, wa, Australia
    Posts
    956

    Default The shop has not timed one cam

    The shop has not timed one cam correctly and the open valve has been hit by the piston...if the timing was done correctly this would not have happened

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,676

    Default "The other interesting questio

    "The other interesting question is why they felt compelled to change the timing belt in the first place. Not normally done at 600 hours unless you observe actual deterioration - which is highly unlikely. In fact, I don't think the shop manual even recommends a specific replacement interval.

    Any of you guru's have an opinion on the proper interval for changing the timing belt on a BF 200 or BF 225?"
    CHawk 25 DLX

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mechanicsville, MD, usa
    Posts
    6

    Default Once the motor is repaired how

    Once the motor is repaired how will this repair affect the life of this motor?

    Other than the normal maintenance such as changing the oil are there any other items I need to address going forward?

    Thanks.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    SF BAY AREA, CALI, USA
    Posts
    8,649

    Default 500hrs it says check belts if

    500hrs it says check belts
    if any wear you replace it

    so it is up to the shop
    they messed up!!
    HUMAN BUILT = HUMAN FIXED

    CERTIFIED MARINE TECHNICIAN

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  10. #10

    Default I have a 225BF with 800 hours.

    I have a 225BF with 800 hours. The timming belt looks perfect. Should I change it? In how many hours should I change it?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    El Cajon, Ca., USA
    Posts
    107

    Default "nikos, I have 2250hrs on my

    "nikos,
    I have 2250hrs on my 1997 75HP motor, timing belt is still lookin good!
    Nick"

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,676

    Default "The larger Hondas put a good

    "The larger Hondas put a good bit more strain on the moving parts, especially the timing belt. So, as a precautionary preventive maintenance issue, I would be inclined to change the belt at around 1500 hours, just to be on the safe side. That's equivalent to about 100,000 miles on an automobile engine."
    CHawk 25 DLX

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mechanicsville, MD, usa
    Posts
    6

    Default The saga continues.....the hon

    The saga continues.....the honda certfied shop replaced the bent valves and put the motor back together and now they are telling me that the motor is not breathing right???? Any idea on what they mean by not breathing right? According to the shop they are going to start diagnosing again tomorrow and do not know at this point if the problem is from the replacement work they did or if we have other problems from the initial timing belt replacement. Thanks.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,676

    Default "Joe - I sure hope you are the

    "Joe - I sure hope you are the mild mannered sort of person. "Not breathing right" is not a proper diagnosis. If this were me, I would be sitting in the owners office with my 12 gauge telling him in a very calm voice to either do a total rebuilt or replace the engine - that's his only two options, because that current engine is near the end of its warranty, and Lord knows what else will go wrong in the near future due to their screw up."
    CHawk 25 DLX

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    3,676

    Default "Joe - also, you may want to g

    "Joe - also, you may want to get a second opinion. Call Keith Whelan at Whelan's Marina in Farmham, Virginia - (804) 394-9500. Those folks do know their Hondas, as do several on this board. Assuming you can trailer your boat, it's about three hours from your location."
    CHawk 25 DLX

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mechanicsville, MD, usa
    Posts
    6

    Default I went to the shop today and t

    I went to the shop today and talked to the mechanic instead of the service writer. The mechanic stated that they did seveal leak down tests and in cylinder 5 we are losing pressure. They put in 80 lbs of pressure and lose 60 pounds back through the cylinder into the crank case. I guess when they are doing the leak down test they can tell whether the air is leaking through the valves or back into the crank case. They called the Honda rep and he told them that the problem could be because of carbon buildup on the rings and on cylinder 5 the rings are stuck. The Honda rep recommended doing a chemical treatment to see if this would fix the problem.

    To me when you are loosing that much compression it sure seems like it would be that the valves are not properly seated but the mechanic assures me that he has triple checked and has made certain that the pressure is not escaping throught the valves.

    Does any of this make sense? Should I contact Honda? Thanks for any suggestions.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    3,676

    Default "Joe, it sounds like you'r

    "Joe, it sounds like you're between a rock and a hard place, and if I were in your shoes, I would be mad as h___. I seriously doubt it's the rings - possible, but not probable. I haven't seen the tests, but I'm willing to bet that the valves are screwed up in #5, and possibly #2 if it was due to a bad timing set-up, regardless of what the mechanic says. He's probably the same one who replaced the timing belt that likely didn't need replacing and screwed up the timing, which in turn screwed up the valves. It's most likely the the bent valve cracked, scored, or warped the one or both of the valve seats. I would insist on a total factory level re-build, and at least a three year warranty on that rebuild."
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    SF BAY AREA, CALI, USA
    Posts
    8,649

    Default "you will not get 3 year warra

    "you will not get 3 year warranty, maybe 1 year

    i would have ordered or demanded new heads"
    HUMAN BUILT = HUMAN FIXED

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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Hague, Virginia, USA
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    3,676

    Default "J-I-T, Roger that. I assume y

    "J-I-T, Roger that. I assume you believe it's the valve seats too - is that correct? And, yes, a set of new heads, as a minimum, is a possible fallback position. But personally, I would be damn insistant on a factory rebuild. These guys screwed up big time."
    CHawk 25 DLX

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    SF BAY AREA, CALI, USA
    Posts
    8,649

    Default "get a lawyer, it might get ug

    "get a lawyer, it might get ugly"
    HUMAN BUILT = HUMAN FIXED

    CERTIFIED MARINE TECHNICIAN

    WWW.JUSTINTIMEMARINE.COM

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    SF BAY AREA, CALI, USA
    Posts
    8,649

    Default "also i have 3 million in i

    "also

    i have 3 million in insurance, just for these kind of problems!"
    HUMAN BUILT = HUMAN FIXED

    CERTIFIED MARINE TECHNICIAN

    WWW.JUSTINTIMEMARINE.COM

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mechanicsville, MD, usa
    Posts
    6

    Default JIT or W D Neal I am no mechan

    JIT or W D Neal I am no mechanic but can the mechanic do a test to figure out where the air pressure is going ie is it escaping because of a bad valve seat or is it getting blown back into the crank case? If the head had a bad valve seat shouldn't the mechanic be able to figure this out through a leak down test? I am not second guessing anybody just trying to educate myself while I am going through this process. I also agree that the only way this is going to be solve is through litigation but we must first exhaust all efforts to repair. Thanks for the info.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tauranga New Zealand
    Posts
    122

    Default "If the mechanic doing the lea

    "If the mechanic doing the leakdown test didn't hold open the throttle flap & an inlet valve was leaking/bent, the gas would leak from the inlet manifold back through the PCV valve & into the crankcase.
    Otherwise it sounds like the piston crown has been damaged and/or nipped the rings through hitting the valve/s"

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hague, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,676

    Default "As Bob pointed out, a leak do

    "As Bob pointed out, a leak down test is not necessarily conclusive to a single problem. I figured it was likely the valve seats, but Bob correctly pointed that the bent valve could have also damaged the piston top or rings. In my opinion a "chemical treatment" to loosen supposedly stuck rings is a cop out. That engine needs to be torn down and thoroughly inspected by someone who knows what they are doing."
    CHawk 25 DLX

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Melbourne, FL, USA
    Posts
    8

    Default "Joe, Did you get this proble

    "Joe,
    Did you get this problem resolved?"

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