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BorgWarner 1911 Gearwhat should dipstick read cold

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major_tom

Regular Contributor
"I replaced a drive damper in

"I replaced a drive damper in the hope that it would eliminate an annoying knocking sound coming from somewhere in my starboard engine, and in doing so I lost about 1/2 of a quart of transmission fluid from the cooler lines. I added 1/2 of a quart of ATF back in and checked the dipstick. The fluid level was about 1/4" from the dipstick end, i.e. just showing. The full mark was about 2" further up. The reading was taken cold as the boat is up on stands here in the Northeast.

What should the fluid level in these gears read cold?

I suppose I could check the other gear but there's no guarantee it is filled to the proper level."
 
"Fill that sucker up as high a

"Fill that sucker up as high as it will go, then run the engine until it's warm and check the level again--the only way it can be done safely.

My Velvet Drives read overfull cold, and spot on when warmed up.

Jeff"
 
"the other gear will get you a

"the other gear will get you a level that's close enough to start it. Then warm them up and make sure they are both full. Let them sit overnight, and then note where the level is - that's you cold fill level. (straight out of the old BW manuals)

They don't come with cold marks because the engine maker controls the cooler loop (added volume). Factor in the installation angle variance along with the expansion factor and it gets tough, fast. Go the custom marking route once and you should be good until the "new" one arrives."
 
"Sounds like a good plan, Mako

"Sounds like a good plan, Mako. It sure looks low to me which is a little strange because I don't recall losing that much during the service intervention. I'll go by the cold fill level from the other side, warm her up, and see where she rests.

I found a Borg-Warner manual on the web. In the "Routine Checks and Maintenance" section and it says to check fluid level while at operating temperature immediately after the engine is shut off. In the "Filling and Checking the Hydraulic System" section it says to "check the level immediately after shut down and then again after more than 1 hour (overnight is excellent)." The overnight check is to test for drain back from the cooler and lines, which is undesirable.

So I'll will start with the same level as the other side, warm it up, and check the level immediately after shut down, adding fluid as necesary. Then I'll check the next day for drain back.

Thanks guys.

Best wishes."
 
"Tom:

Here's what the e

"Tom:

Here's what the earliest crusader manual (on-line) says...The critical check is after the engine stops; the fluid should be at the MARK.

AFTER you are happy that the correct amount of fluid is in the gear, then let it 'drain back' and you may then establish a COLD FILL level, if desired.

EXTRACT From CRUSADER's Owner's manual"
1. Remove the dipstick by turning the T-handle
counterclockwise. Observe the fluid level.
Replace the dipstick and tighten securely.
2. Operate the engine until the engine and the
transmission reach operating temperature.
3. Stop the engine and quickly check the fluid
level to minimize the drain-back from the oil
cooler. Remove the dipstick by turning the
T-handle counterclockwise. Observe the fluid
level.
4. The fluid level should be at the “FULL” or “MAX”
mark. If low, add the specified fluid through the
dipstick tube. Repeat checking procedures as
required until the fluid level is at the “FULL” or
“MAX” mark.
5. Replace the dipstick and tighten securely.
WARNING
Do not attempt to remove the transmission dipstick
while the engine is running. Hot transmission fluid could be sprayed from the dipstick hole."
 
"Good enough, Mako. Your post

"Good enough, Mako. Your post clarifies the stiuration further.

Start with the same level as the other side, warm it up, and check the level immediately after shut down, adding fluid as necesary to reach the full mark.

Thanks."
 
"This job has always struck me

"This job has always struck me as a bit impossible. Hot, ATF is so thin, I would expect near instant drain back at engine shutdown. How long does this fluid take to run down a 1/2" hose? And what about the draindown inside the actual transmission? At the very least, it will be a 2 person job. For sure, you need ~ 1/2" of extra fluid on the stick, using a typical remote oil cooler."
 
"Hey Tom, Could you direct me

"Hey Tom, Could you direct me to where you found the B&G manual on the web? Much apprecieated."
 
"Thomas, did that fix the nois

"Thomas, did that fix the noise from the engine? I have the knock at low speeds in gear, was told that its a common sound for that engine."
 
"I don't know if the noise

"I don't know if the noise is gone because I haven't run the engine yet. I'll find out at launch time in two weeks and post the result. My guess is the knock is probably still there based upon the condition of the old drive damper, which didn't look too bad. The guy at behind the desk at the marine gear shop thought the spline on the old damper showed some wear and said its possible the noise will diminish. I'm not holding out much hope, which is one of the reasons I haven't run it yet. I can wait a little longer for the disappointment.

I don't think the knock is "normal". Its most noticable at low RPMS (both in or out of gear) and gets drowned out by other engine noises as RPM's increase, but if you listen carefully you can still hear it at higher RPMS. The knock is not present in the starboard engine of the same vintage.

It could be piston slap or something more serious like main or connecting rod bearing noise, etc. but it doesn't seem to fit those systems. Its been there going on four years and 300 hours now. I'm preparing to run it harder this year than in the past. I've done all I can. It could be that a remanufactured big block is in my future. At least I know how to unbolt the gear now..."
 
"guys, I had a 454 with velvet

"guys, I had a 454 with velvet drive for 15 years. we had the rattle in the tranny which was very common with many of them. The chatter was annoying but considered normal from the factory. we used a centa drive damper plate that helped some but not totally. The chatter typically disapperars over 800 RPM. Crusader no longer offers Velvet drives with their new engines unless specifically asked for because of this. The offer ZF now as factory issued standard. Also,Velvet drive is no longer owned by BW and is now built by a company in Liberty South Carolina and they claim the chatter is no longer a major sypmtom due to new machining tolerances. Best of luck... Allen"
 
"Old damper plates typically w

"Old damper plates typically wear at the end of the springs, causing the rattle. If you can rotate the springs by hand and see side to side movement, that will cause low rpm in-gear rattle."
 
I was hoping to see some damag

I was hoping to see some damage to the springs. A few were a little worn on the surface but they were locked into the plate pretty good.

A low RPM in gear rattle wouldn't concern me. However a pretty good knock in and out of gear doesn't seem very good.
 
"Yeah, going into forward shou

"Yeah, going into forward should be virtually silent with an engine rpm of <800rpm. The damper springs and/or tranny gear noise is more of a constant rattle, going away >1000rpm."
 
"I know this is a slight highj

"I know this is a slight highjacking of the thread, but what is the oil pressure on the velvet drive 1:1? I want to replace the coolent hoses and don't want to put in ones that may burst."
 
"The service manual I have say

"The service manual I have says the line pressure can reach 250PSI during high RPM, cold temp operations. I'd use hose rated at 300# working."
 
"Aeroquip FC332-08 works. You

"Aeroquip FC332-08 works. You don't need or want steel reinforment. I don't know if the hose is exposed to full line pressure, or even full oil pump flow; since it drains into the sump, I would tend to doubt it."
 
"It isn't. Like in auto t

"It isn't. Like in auto trannies, a low pressure bypass flow goes to the exchamger.

Jeff"
 
"Thanks guy's,
I figure

"Thanks guy's,
I figure I might as well replace those lines while I have everything out. I am in the process today of cleaning the bilge which is such a fun job and then repainting it prior to the reinstilation of the engine."
 
"You're lucky not to have

"You're lucky not to have a MArinette! They used this sound deadener insulation on the aluminum hull that turns into the infamous "Black Crap" when oil or gas touches it. What a mess! Been hacking, scraping and solvent cleaning mine for years--and it still looks awful.

Jeff"
 
"Miss Nancy had sound damping

"Miss Nancy had sound damping put in by one of the previous owners. I have been vacuming it up since I bought her in '91. I have found a couple of sockets that I lost a few years back, not much good after all that bilge water so into the trash they went. As I was cleaning today I found that one of the hose clamps on my shaft log had corroded and broke. So now I am pulling that and making sure that every thing there is ok. If its not one thing it's 2 dozen others!"
 
"I HAVE THE SAME 1.91:1 VELVET

"I HAVE THE SAME 1.91:1 VELVET DRIVES IN MY TIARA 3600 CONVERTIBLE. ONE OF THE TRANSMISSIONS IS CREEPING WHEN IN NEUTRAL, IS THERE AN ADJUSTMENT THAT WILL CORRECT THIS ISSUE?"
 
"No sorry, you have a worn for

"No sorry, you have a worn forward clutch pack. How long has it been turning in neutral? The reason I ask, is that mine is doing that also, after running low on fluid and slipping a bit."
 
"I TALKED TO A CAPTAIN FRIEND

"I TALKED TO A CAPTAIN FRIEND OF MINE THAT SAYS THIS IS NOT A SERIOUS PROBLEM AND THAT ONE OF MY TRANSMISSION IS A REVERSE OF THE OTHER AND THAT IS THE ONE THAT IS PROBABLY TURNING IN NEUTRAL.

IT HAS BEEN DOING THIS FOR SOME TIME, I WILL TRY ADDING SOME TRANSMISSION FLUID TO SEE IF IT RESOLVES IT.

IF NOT DO I HAVE TO REMOVE THE TRANSMISSION AND HAVE IT SERVICED OR CAN IT BE DONE WHILE IN THE WATER?"
 
"did you check the control cab

"did you check the control cable adjustment and the lever on the tranmission for correct location?

last time i looked this was explained in the owners manual.

If it is a dual station set up and they are run in series, disconnect the upper cable from the lower control and then get the lower control correct first.

If the boat has seen a lot of use, the cable may need to be changed."
 
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