PUMP BLUE

OK..... so what is going to pu

OK..... so what is going to pump my fuel then... read the rest of the tread we have dicussed everything from pre mix to old style pumps to electric pumps... But I know what you mean...

"We had the same problem at wo

"We had the same problem at work... we noticed the fuel filter would not stay filled with fuel. We actually ended up just replacing the fuel filter and that solved our problem... Don't really know why maybe a bad filter, water logged... dont know. I don't want you to go buy a new one and that not being the problem but its worth a try. I am sorry about the last post i just fet up with VRO."

"I just don't have that ma

"I just don't have that many options with a motor this big... can't go old style, electric is unsafe so... I have to stick with VRO(fuel only at least)... I did bough a fuel filter at the lake marina, but did not get a chance to install it, but the one that I got one is the second I replace (just in case, but both are the glass type) the one I just bought is one piece plastic we will see I'm planning to head out to the lake again on Saturday"

"nicknack2,

have you checke

"nicknack2,

have you checked your fuel for water?


i only run the one filter everyone should have------fuel/water separaetr.

you can use your primer bulb and a pickle jar or something like that. just remove the fuel connector and squirt the fuel into the jar and look for water bubbles at the bottom.

i have a '64 18hp on one of my small alum boats and had a good time pulling the rope for around 45min to an hr before i realized i had water in the gas.

condensation is a pia. if your boat sits for long periods you need to add stabilizer to your fuel..........and remember a full tank of gas has a less likely chance for condensation........if any."

"For the time being (becau

"For the time being (because I'm still testing or trying to figure out what is wrong), I'm just using 6 gal. tanks with fresh fuel, so I think water is out of the equation... plus I do have a F/W separator right after the portable tank and then just a regular Fuel Filter before the VRO…"

"Wow nicknack....poor guy. YE

"Wow nicknack....poor guy. YEAH I am watching this mess.....
I wonder if anyone had warned him about the dealer he bought his supposedly 2000 Evinrude from in Florida, which turned out to be a '98 Johnson, with a rebuilt powerhead on it, which then failed to run after he had it shipped and installed in Arizona, and then "negotiated" with the dealer who sent him a VRO rebuild kit...which failed to work for him...I wonder if anyone had warned nicknack....WOULD HE HAVE STILL BOUGHT FROM THAT DEALER?
See my point nicknack? No, of course you don't."

"Well for your own sake and so

"Well for your own sake and so you can feel safe...don't take it the wrong way.. the name is Universal Marine in MIAMI, but I still don't have nothing bad to say about him, I bought the kit myself he didn't sent it, however he offered to have my VRO shipped back to him and get it
re-built, I just didn't have the time or patient to do so, who I'm very disappointed of is the marina that did the job, it is hard for me to believe that when they installed the motor they did not run it on a test tank or dyno (which by the way they do have one) to make sure that everything with their install was good to go, that is poor work ethics, is not like I wasn't going to pay, as I paid every cent they asked me for w/o even trying to have them lower the price or complaining about the charges...the name of the marina is Oasis Marine in Tucson, AZ they will never see me bringing any thing to them ever again."

"Nicknack....you told me once

"Nicknack....you told me once to just stay out of this if I didn't have anything to offer.
Well here it is, and read it VERY carefully. I AM GOING TO BE BLUNT.

First, much of your problem is due to a lack of understanding on the BASICS of the way these motors work. I have read and re-read your posts very carefully and your comments indicate that you don't really know what a VRO is.

In the early '80s, OMC came out with an oiling/mixing system they called VRO. It stands for "Variable Ratio Oiling". VRO. VRO mixes oil to the gas at a variable ratio throughout the engine's operating range in order to provide a properly oiled fuel charge to the carbs, and eventually to each cylinder.
OMC's first try at these pumps was "iffy". I scored a cylinder on an '85 185 due to a failed VRO pump.
They came out with a newly designed pump, VRO2.
I don't know the date, but that is what you have as original equipment on a '98 200 hp....VRO2.

Now, what makes me suspect that you don't quite understand is your above post to Cameron on Wednesday at 11:10, saying "what is going to pump my fuel then?" See it? Also, you are posting pics and asking questions about where the oil line hooks up to the new pump, and if you should transfer the oil fittings to the new pump.
It all indicates a basic mis-understanding.

You have ALREADY done away with the VRO2 system by replacing the defective VRO2 pump with a "fuel only" fuel pump and pre-mixing your gas. No oil line to connect, no electrical connections to connect...no VRO2.

You see? The "fuel only" pump is NOT a VRO2 pump. It does no oil mixing functions. It looks like it, smells like it, but it is not a VRO pump.

That is the fundamental mis-understanding that I think you are having.
Go re-read JWBs answers to you. He refers to the pump he is recommending you use as "VRO looking".
This "fuel only" pump looks like, attaches to the block, operates off of crankcase pulses, just like a VRO2, but is NOT a VRO anything.

Go back and re-read JWBs answers. HE is telling you what to do, but you are not following.
Truly.

Check the pulse limiter fitting. JWB refers to it on Jan 16 at 12:11. If the internal check valve is leaking, your pulses will not be strong enough to operate the "VRO looking" pump. Note I said "VRO looking".

And if you are running this engine in a fuel starved condition...with a weak output from the fuel pump....you will be looking on EBAY for another replacement powerhead very soon.
My manual states.."A clogged pulse limiter check valve will limit fuel and oil supply, causing serious powerhead damage." BY running lean on some or all cylinders.

Keep pre-mixing your gas at 50:1. Use 3/8 in. fuel hose. Make sure it is not sucking air from any of the fuel line fittings anywhere in the fuel path. Do not use the quick connect when attaching the fuel line to the 6 gallon tank. It will cause a fuel restriction. Check for proper pump output pressure at 7-8 psi as JWB says.
If all above is done, I really doubt that your current 2200 rpm problem is fuel pump related.

I hope this helps some."

"I just saw that you posted th

"I just saw that you posted the answer for me while I was writing a book back to you.
Thank you for the information. Now, here is my story.

I put my boat in the water after 2 yrs. of non-use.
I ran it for about 12 hours total, with the final outcome being that I burned up the powerhead. I made my first posts to this forum regarding that issue. I still DO NOT know what caused the failure...carbs were clean as a whistle, water pump was good...I do think the VRO was working because I was using oil out of the tank...I have done a very thorough autopsy on this and cannot find the cause.

So, anyway...I got on EBAY and began looking for a suitable used engine and guess what?

Lo and behold, I found Universal Marine in Miami. Robert...right? I went down there to inspect the engine... a 1996 200 Evinrude...exactly the same motor that I just burned up. Great!!! I will just swap powerheads and be running again, plus I will have a ton of parts for later use. They ran the engine for me on muffs, they checked the compression, they did all that I would expect someone selling a used engine would do.
So, I bought it for 2700.00 and hauled it home.
I swapped the powerhead, and put it all back together, changing the water pump while at it.

I put it in my local shop, where they did a professional "link and sync" to make sure carbs and timing were OK. I also replaced the VRO2 pump with a "fuel only" pump and put fresh gas and oil in my built-in tank at a 40:1 mix. I did the 40:1 mix on purpose for the first trial.

I put it in the water, and within two miles, I had scored another cylinder...#2 this time. Got it up to 3000, just on plane, and it shut down due to #2 piston swelling in the cylinder.

This powerhead came from Universal Marine in Miami. I have not done any autopsy work on it yet, so I don't know the exact cause. I will look at #2 carburetor first, then I will look at the pre-mix gas...thinking that it may have been mixed wrong.

Universal Marine is in southwest Miami, and they appeared to me to be piecing motors together. They had about a dozen motors for sale, and guys working hard on others. They were working on all brands.

I would still do what I did, though. There was nothing that stood out as a red flag when I was at their shop, and the testing and inspection of the motor that I bought was satisfactory to me.

But I feel that it is important for readers considering any or all of the above to have full complete information on all aspects of others' problems.

Again, thanks for letting me know who you bought yours from...."

"Thanks… now what I'm conc

"Thanks… now what I'm concern with is that the VRO looking pump looks like a VRO pump, but missing the oil part of it, I know I’m not using the oils side, but is it required??? Do I need to put it on so it will seal and prevent air from entering the pump as it happens when you don’t plug the oil pick up ??? w/o putting the oil part on it would it suck air in to the VRO looking pump?? thru the area where the oil part supposed to be or is it internally sealed????"

"Yep, it was Robert, he seems

"Yep, it was Robert, he seems like a nice guy
is he doing anything for you? however; shut if I just knew... I would not have bought the headache I got now.
I did away with my twin 115 Merc's because I was tired of working on them only to get myself into another mess, at least I knew my Merc's good..."

"No, that pump should be good

"No, that pump should be good to go right out of the box, with only fuel inlet and fuel outlet and the vacuum / pulse line to hook up.
Yes, Robert seem like a very nice guy. However, he was kinda "flighty" when I was down there. He never seemed to be in the same place. He was always out of town, away from the shop...etc. It was kinda strange to have a customer at your door (me) and then not be there to handle the deal. He also didn't remember who I was when I went down to get the motor.
As I said, I would probably do the same thing again. He is not doing anything for me, because I have not asked anything from him. I figure I bought a used motor, and there was nothing that he did wrong that I can find.
His EBAY ad lists many things that his shop does to all used motors. One of them is "Rebuild carbs." If I find that the carbs have not been done, and there is gum or trash in number two carb, then I think I will have the answer to why the Miami motor failed so quickly.
It ran very well on the muffs, and at the local shop...so I don't know.
I am not at all suggesting that Universal owes me some sort of compensation. I am a beginner at this, and who knows? I may have burned up this engine from something that I did during the powerhead swap. I just find it interesting that we both used the same Miami dealer. By the way, that is what I suspected all along...I just wanted the confirmation.

Fire me a private e-mail to [email protected] with your phone number and I will call you if you want to help you avoid burning up another powerhead like I did."

Thanks man... sorry for the ho

Thanks man... sorry for the hostility... but I guess we just have bad luck but I will have to agree with you on this one... it is estrange how both engines came from the same place...

"I can be intense sometimes...

"I can be intense sometimes...well, alot of the times when I feel very strongly about something.
And I am very very particular....I need to know all the details on any problem that I encounter.
That's why the "autopsy" I am trying to perform.
I got a need to know. What burned them up?"

"sounds to me like the dealer

"sounds to me like the dealer mechanics arent up to snuff........even piecing one together should be right when it goes out the door!!!!


i think you both got screwed...........both of you together should call the better bis bureau and see where that takes yall.

imo one motor...........maybe an accident.........2 motors..........well thats just wrong.

if it were me i would let a shop do the "autopsy" so there isnt anything the courts can say about you being a shade tree mech and doing the work yourself...............i know i would be skeptical if i had sold something that burnt up shortly after sale and the guy took it upon himself to work on it.........instead of an experienced mech.


just my 2 cents.

sorry if i ruffled ant feathers, but this sounds like dirty dealings to me.

p.s. i wouldnt even think about sending anything back to this joker to fix........especially a vro2 pump that can and will destroy you eng----if faulty."

you two may also want to see i

you two may also want to see if yall can find anyone esle who has had dealings with this guy............im sure there are more people with the same problems as you 2 are having........

if this is a coincidence i apologize for anything i may have implied about the dealer........but i doubt it is.

if it were me i would be cordial until i hit a brick wall.........then i would take it to court........i say that now but if i were in yalls shoes-----this guy better do something quick!

good luck guys and im sorry to see you are both having problems..............boating is supposed to be fun!

"Well, David, thanks...but you

"Well, David, thanks...but you must remember that my problem was a scored #2 piston, AFTER I did much work to the used powerhead from a running engine that I bought.
Nicknack has a totally different issue....he thought he was getting a 2000 'Rude and got a 1998 Johnson (rebuilt). He has a good chance of getting his running. I hope he doesn't burn it up with this low output fuel pump issue.
Nicknack....keep that oil/fuel at 50:1 in the tank!!!! And don't run it lean...

The bad thing about these outboards is that they will fail in a heartbeat with absolutely NO warning at all....they will just lock right up.

Don't mistake my above statement thinking that I don't know about the warning horn system....I do. In my case, the #2 cylinder scored with no alarm going off. And it did it very quickly.

Nicknack...the pulse limiter is about 18.00 if you want to just change it. It only goes one way on the hoses though, with the blue nipple toward the fuel pump.

Regarding the removed oil components that you were thinking may need to be moved to the new pump, I think you are looking at a 1" square void in the pump housing that looks as if there should be something there. If so, that is where the electronics would be potted in with four wires coming out of the plastic housing. It doesn't need electronics for fuel only operation. So, unless I am WAY WAY off, I don't think you need to do anything to the pump other than take it out of the box and hook up the fuel and pulse lines.
If I am wrong, PLEASE, someone weigh in on this."

"out of the box,..hook it up,.

"out of the box,..hook it up,..purge..go."

"Part # 5007422 this pump came

"Part # 5007422 this pump came as a kit with a new pulse limiter and the hardware needed to install, I just need to put on the pulse inlet nipple along with the respective O-ring and if there is no chance of air being sucked in thru oil portion of the "real VRO" I'm all set I be going back to the lake on Saturday..."

"hey nicknack2,
I have a &#39

"hey nicknack2,
I have a '97 'rude oceanpro. See my story under the thread Evinrude 150 surge. My engine will idle all day long but not run well past 3,500 rpm. it seems to be getting worse. Just FYI, I took mine in and in talking to the mechanic, he said whenever he replaces a fuel pump, he changes the pulse limiter part so you may be onto something. let me know if it works. I'll post on my thread what the final outcome of my repair is. Should have it back in a week or two.
Good luck with yours. let us know the final resolution."

"Nicknack....
When you put th

"Nicknack....
When you put that new pulse limiter in, pop the air silencer cover off and visually verify that the throttle butterflies are opening up fully at WOT. Just look down the carb throats...all six of them. The screws that allow throttle syncronization may not have been tightened, and the butterflies are not really opening fully.
It is easier to do if you remove the throttle cable so that you can move the throttle linkages by hand. Only one 3/8 in. nut to disconnect this linkage so you can operate it manually.
Also, as you move the throttle linkage by hand, make sure the timer base moves freely. It is the part under the flywheel that is directly connected to the throttle linkage and rotates with the movement of the linkage.
Also, you are using a portable 6 gallon can, right? If it has a vent, make sure it is open when you are running.
Remember that Scott S. above has a 150. It is significantly different from your 200.

Good luck."

"I think the linkage is not th

"I think the linkage is not the issue as when the motor tries to get over 2200 RPMs I pump the fuel bulb and momentarily tries to go, I have been keeping my eye on the tank's vent as I read its a common occurrence to leave it closed creating reverse vacuum, so I'm almost 100% that the pump will be the fix to it, Scott, I don’t think the pulse limiter was the issue either as I can blow right thru the old one however I’m not taking any chances and put the new one on..."

"Nicknack...
You can blow rig

"Nicknack...
You can blow right thru the old one...

HMMM....the proper operation is to blow thru ONLY ONE WAY.
Blow thru it one way, turn it around and you should NOT be able to blow thru it.
If it is clear both ways, it is definitely bad."

"Nicknack..
I am sorry, but y

"Nicknack..
I am sorry, but your posts really confuse me.
On Jan 22 at 9:27 you state " and if there is no chance of air being sucked in thru oil portion of the "real VRO".
What do you mean by that? I thought we were talking about a "fuel only pump" that has no oil fittings...and that you didn't know whether to put your "oil side" parts onto the fuel only pump.

What do you mean by "real VRO". Have you decided to get a "real VRO" pump now, with the oil fittings? The "real VRO2" pump part number that I am used to seeing is 5007420, not 5007422.

I am confused as to what you have now."

"OK looking up 5007422, I see

"OK looking up 5007422, I see it is the OMC version of the fuel only, non mixing, fuel pump.

It still makes me wonder why you posted as you did on Jan 22 at 9:27.

If you have two variables...one being the pump, and two being the pulse limiter....and you change both at the same time, you will not know which one was the problem, will you?"

"Dough even the new pulse limi

"Dough even the new pulse limiter you are able to blow both ways, about the VRO I was confused as if I had to put the oil parts as on the new one … I was wondering if that was needed to seal the pump from air being sucked up thru there as in a real VRO you would plug the oil line in order to avoid air being sucked in, but as JWB stated that the pump should be good to go right out of the box... I ran the motor today with the flushing devices on and the motor ran much smoother that it did with the other pump, tomorrow I will run to the lake, but one more thing happened today... yeah I know the never ending story... as I try to crank the motor one last time, the starter just spoon around, that is after its gear engaged the flywheel... but after spinning a little bit the gear in the starter would start to spin then turning the flywheel, I left the motor with the cover off for about 15 minutes and it got wet from the very light rain (sprinkling) of this morning, could that cause the starter acting up it never acted up before…
Any advise on the starter???"

"check and clean and recharge

"check and clean and recharge your battery,
connections etc most likely the cause for starter acting like that.try a little wd 40 on starter bendix gear can help from sticking"

"If you know what you are doin

"If you know what you are doing some what, to save you money you can take it apart and clean it all out with carb cleaner and dry it off and assemble it back CORRECTLY. Just be careful doing this, dont drop anything and put it back right. This will help extend the life of it a little longer."

"I'll go look at and test

"I'll go look at and test my pulse limiter tomorrow.
The book says it has an internal check valve which is not individually serviced. Check valve to me indicates one way flow only. But I will see. The check valve may close only under relatively high back pressure pulses...something that lightly blowing would not duplicate.

Regarding the starter, I am sorry...I just can't get a grasp in what you are trying to say.

Is it this? Turn key, starter turns, but the bendix gear does not ride up on the starter spindle, and therefore does not mesh with the flywheel ring gear? Is that it?

If so, that has been addressed on this forum, and suggestions have been made regarding making sure your battery is fully charged, use bolted on battery cables, not jumper cables, and according to the GUY WHO FIXED it, be sure to lube the starter shaft and bendix gear so it slides up and down freely.

Any more on the starter problem should probably have a new thread."

"the starter spins... but not

"the starter spins... but not the starter’s gear, even when it moves up on to the flywheel, making a winding noise then it seems as if gear catches on to the starter and starts turning the flywheel, but all this happens with the starter gear resting on the flywheel as the starter spins... I did sprayed some WD-40… it is odd it started right after the rain so I hope is not the starter it self."