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Need New Block Crusader Virgin

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nwcycle

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"HELLO, I AM ABOUT TO PURCHASE

"HELLO, I AM ABOUT TO PURCHASE A1974 VIKING 35, IT HAS THE 2 350 454 CRUSADER ENGINES, 1 OF THE ENGINES IS SUPPOSE TO HAVE A CRACKED BLOCK, I AM GETTING THE BOAT I FEEL FOR A GOOD DEAL, DONT MIND HAVING TO SWAP OUT AN ENGINE, QUESTION IS, WHO IS OR HAS HEARD OF THE MOST REPUTABLE ENGINE RE BUILDER WITH ANY WARRANTY?,ANY HELP ON THIS WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED, ALSO IF ANYONE HAS ANY DO IT NOW BEFORE I HAVE TO DO IT AGAIN ADVISE, I AM ALL EARS...
THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY HELP
RON"
 
"Also, if there is any info or

"Also, if there is any info or updates on this engine, or mods recommended,
Thanks again in advance"
 
"Colonel:

First of all, tha

"Colonel:

First of all, thank you for serving our country. I've had good luck with my rebuilt long block from these guys:

http://www.marinepowerservice.com/

Hard to beat their prices when you do the math, and the motor is pre-broken in on a dyno.

Jeff"
 
"Yup. Also, a couple of point

"Yup. Also, a couple of points. It's very likely the cracked block is worth zero as a core, since presumably its not rebuildable. Second thing is the decision of 4 bolt vs 2 bolt mains. Clearly, the 4 bolt main block is stronger, though I've run 2 bolt blocks for many years in marine applications and not seen any main bearing issues. Stay with the passenger car block, if you end up roaming the junk yards. This way you won't be looking for unusual length pushrods, heads, etc. If faced with the decision, I'd take the 4 bolt, but not pay much extra for it. This all assumes "normal", non-turbo, less than 4600 rpm operation. Far more important is the cooling system, proper cam break-in, and very likely, using a ZDDP oil additive."
 
"Thanks Guys, I assume this is

"Thanks Guys, I assume this is just a basic Chevy big block? what brand or company do you suggest as rebuilding parts? i want to make it reliable ( if there is such a thing ) so i am not looking for top power, just reliable, i dont want to do this twice
I will look into powerservice thanks Fastjeff...
Ron"
 
Was that an F-15? Cool!

Was that an F-15? Cool!

Don't rebuild it yourself; get a rebuiilt short block. It's cheaper in the long run.


Jeff
 
"No Jeff, Its an A10A Thunderb

"No Jeff, Its an A10A Thunderbolt ( Warthog ) fixed wind attach ( tank buster , and about anything else)
actually if you go to you tube , punch in a10 warthog afghanistan, you will see some of our work,
i was 354/355th TFW Davis/Monthon AFB Tuscon AZ.
Thanks again,
Just looking to save some coin here and looking not for a shortcut, but reliability, last time i had a engine deal with a warrantee, they took care of the engine, but i still had to pay some clown R & R fees...
Do you know if a merc will bolt in with direct or will i have to fiddle fart with everything.
since i am new to this engine, but not to boating in general, how is it for overall parts/reliability??
Thanks again
Ron"
 
"Col:

Those black engines u

"Col:

Those black engines use a different motor mount set up. It's not hard to change over, just more time. The engine harness plug is different, too. If you have the end outlet exhaust, there's another difference.

Jeff's suggestion has merit and if you're gonna get a short/long block, all the differences above are irrelevant because you will need to reuse the originals.

My mid-eighties crusaders (454) were rebuilt with a lot of mercrusier stuff, mostly due to convenience of a work arrangement I had. We did the rebuild, with a trusted machinist because we could save a few bucks AND we wanted to know every fastener was good/new and torqued properly."
 
"Thanks, this is basically wha

"Thanks, this is basically what i was looking to do, i am weighing the difference of having it rebuilt by a guy who i know and trust, so every bolt is done by hand and not some air gun happy minimum wage guy, who is learning.
but if i do find a good block, i have to at least use marine parts for the rebuild, as far as cranks, etc, cams ,
so thats why i was looking for a rebulder that had a great rep, and these kind of forums are fantastic to find those builders.
thanks mark"
 
"The internals are pretty stan

"The internals are pretty standard across all of GM's lines (well back in the old days of cu in vs todays liters.) The cams are standard speed-pro, at least for the 330-350 hp range.

The big driver is how much capability/time do you have?

Another way to look at is how much do you like to use your boat (or want to)? If you know somebody that is trusted, it's probably worth "buying what you know". The trade is based on the warranty the rebuilder goives you. I never seen one that will cover the R&R though I've met people that claim to have had the Rebuilder pick up (or split) the R&R when a problem occurs - you can also factor in the "can't use" time and aggrevation.

I went the extreme route - Every bolt/nut in both of mine were done by me. The machinist's work was rechecked with the micrometers - not because I didn't trust him - I just wanted to make sure.

For what its worth, mine are now 'hybrid' crusader-mercs. thunderbolt IV ignitions and center riser exhausts. We rebuilt them to the merc 340BW specs, except for the pistons - got a great deal on two sets of forged pistons - had to live with 8:1 compression....haven't had any regrets"
 
"Thanks Mark
If you dont mind

"Thanks Mark
If you dont mind, i will get back to you as this project nears, i am using it for Lake Michigan, pleasure only, go back and forth across to Michigan, ( 90 Miles ), but of course dont want to cut corners with anything, but dont like throwing it away either..
Thanks again
Ron"
 
"I love A-10s! See them screa

"I love A-10s! See them scream low overhead all the time, especially at the beach where the girls are displaying their, ah, talents!

Had very good luck with the Vesuvio (sp?) rebuilt engine I got from those guys I mentioned. And it's hard to beat their prices.

Jeff"
 
"a few comments re auto vs mar

"a few comments re auto vs marine block. The engine internals are the same as a RV application, with the exception of SS head gaskets. One of your engines is a reverse rotation, meaning it has a gear driven cam, and a different rear oil seal. The starter is wired different internally, the alt are same, the pumps, distibutor, heads are same. There are newer "generations" of BB chevy motors; your boat age had the Gen IV. Later generations went with serpentine belts, one piece rear oil seals, no provisions for mech. fuel pump, different rocker arm arrangements, no reverse rotation models, and more. There were some issues with Gen V engines; I might tend to avoid those. Starters, alternators, distributors, circuit breakers, all have a marine rating, and have fixes to reduce explosion potential. If I was in your position, I would likely find a good gen IV block. Whether you go to a rebuilder or use a machine shop is determined by time, tools on hand, mechanical ability, free $... I just did a bottom end job on a gen IV for $2000, new pistons, bearings, ground crank, marine gasket set, but no top end work."
 
See: 2 grand and the heads are

See: 2 grand and the heads are yet to be reconditioned. Auto parts are expensive--especially refinishing materials. Just bought a quart sized bottle of compound: $20!

Jeff
 
"Hey guys, I am going to look

"Hey guys, I am going to look at the Boat today, I will try to get some photos and serial numbers off the bad engine, it would be nice to get the same set up that has been in it, just so i dont have to have different parts laying around, or at least just a matched set,
thanks and will send info when i get all the numbers etc...."
 
"$900 parts, $600 machining la

"$900 parts, $600 machining labor; it did include bore job, sandblasting sand, elbows, some stainless fasteners, new torsional dampner; but no head work. AND, not including some 80 hours of my time
yawn.gif
What was surprisingly cheap were the pistons, rings, bearings; what was surprisinglyexpensive was the oil cooler hoses, ~ $7/foot these days for raw hose.

Next, I tackle an old BMW. Just ordered a new oil pump, $430 DISCOUNT price, not including chain/sprocket... Chevy parts are CHEAP>>>>"
 
If you rebuild or buy a replac

If you rebuild or buy a replacement you want to have one of the later cams as they have changed the valve timing overlap somewhat. there has been a water ingestion problem with GM big block engines over the years and part of the problem has been the automotive profile of the cam that causes some water to be puled back up in the exaust. Do a search on the web for water intrusion on GM big block engines.

If they are fresh water cooled wou are probably a little better off. Crusader has redesigned their exhaust risers to prevent some of the problems of water intrusion and salt water vapors getting to the valves and causing rust. The best way to not shut down fast and run the engines a little to dry out the exhaust area. The latest Crusader big block engines have little to no problem with it.
 
"OK guys here goes, I looked a

"OK guys here goes, I looked at the boat, very large and needs a lot of TLC, it is a 76 Viking 35, used orig. one owner for fishing charter. The owner wants this to go to a good home, price is not an issue as i think he will take about 5K for it, YES 5 Thou !!, OK but it does have a starboard side Eng. problem, they say its cracked i looked but cannot see a failure, they did have a hour meter on each, approx 4200 on the starboard, and 3850 on the port. I have never owned a large boat before my last was a Sea Ray 30', the engine is a gen 4 454, which i knew,
I guess what i will need to know is what might be the cost of having a marina do the whole job, and do most warranty there work, as far as if it takes a crap on me will most marinas back it up??
this will be on lake Michigan, and has always had fresh water, just looking to see if i am deeper than i should get into,
i am not looking at this as a fix it and sell, just something to do on my retirement
thanks again, you guys have been very helpful so far
Ron"
 
"Ron:

Ask around and see wh

"Ron:

Ask around and see what the going rate is. Around here it will vary from $75-100/hr. The big factor is how much access is there to the engine room.

You have to figure if you're gonna do the rebuilding or buy it done. Most shops around here won't warrant anything once they loose control - they don't like putting your stuff in and providing any type of warranty. That said, times are 'tight' and you may be able to find someone to work with you.

As far as marina A honoring marina B's work, for warranty, not likely. the exception would be if you bought a new power package and they were both servicing dealerships.

That Viking is a heavy one and will work those 454's real good. expect a lot of fuel dollars if you use it cruising a lot. The former owner should be able to give you very detailed records regarding fuel consumption.

That's a lot of hours for gas - do you have any service history available? I'd expect at least one rebuild on both, if not two. If its been thru two, there's probably not much left to rebuild.

mark"
 
"Thanks Mark, I was expecting

"Thanks Mark, I was expecting a marina to do the whole ball of wax, i understand about warrantying someones work, wont happen, i also spoke with the captain, he did say it got approx 3/4 mile per gallon, thats an est of course. i do understand its a big heavy 20K lb boat, it should fit nice in our 3 acre pond, ( just kidding ) .
and the port motor has been rebuilt 2 times and the current one that is cracked once before.
i feel its most likely best i just get me a reman, one let the marina put it in, as they have all the toys, lifts etc, i just hope i get to maybe grease the mech a bit extra to do that little extra, i want to make sure both or all ex man are pressure tested, and what ever other precaution..
any other suggestions would be great guys,
Thanks so much for taking your time to read this and answer.
Ron"
 
"You may want to evaluate the

"You may want to evaluate the trade between saving the $$ with you buying it vs letting thtem buy it (all inclusive warranty from one 'belly button'). I'd write a list of the different scenarios you could expect and ask questions. You have better insight to where you may go and how far it is.

Only other thing I'd suggest is getting them to ensure the whole drive train (both sides, too)is in good shape and properly aligned. Better to find out now than after you have the motor in, etc. If you have any budget left, doing the propscan process is worthwhile, too."
 
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