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Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Posts
    89

    Default "Ok this is a dumb question bu

    "Ok this is a dumb question but I am doing something very wrong when boating. When I come near a shallow area I raise the drive and go in slowly, maybe 1500 RPM. So far this season I have bent a tilt rod and ripped two bellows. The bellows ripping is pretty scary because if it happened well the boat was in the water for a weekend the boat could sink if I didn't notice.

    Should I not tilt the drive at all and just let it hit, I guess it is not locked up so it will just swing up... Is it ok to drive with the tilt up at idle speed? Or does this risk ripping the bellows as well, I would assume if the bellows rips at 2k RPM it should at any RPM.

    Lastly, the indicator light does not work and I think I need to get that hooked up. The tilt works great. I had another unit here and switched the limit switch and it still isn't working... Maybe both of them had bad limit switches. If it was a bad switch would the tilt still work? The other unit I took the limit switch out of was a working unit with a 4 wire motor so i think that means the limit switch must work... My motor is just a two wire motor so I don't think it is smart enough to use the information from the limit switch."

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ladysmith, BC, Canada
    Posts
    5,862

    Default "Jamie, it seems to me that yo

    "Jamie, it seems to me that you have many wrong concepts about your boat.

    As a rule, you should never tilt the outdrive unless strictly necessary (i.e. you ran into shallow water and need to get out without damaging the drive). Yes, I know you the manual says are allowed to slightly tilt it when going into shallow water, but bending a tilt rod should have told you by now that tilting the outdrive and running the boat at the same time (even if at slow speed) can bring nasty consequences.

    Also, even if your bellows gets ripped apart, your boat will never get a drop of water inside, because the seals int he bellhousing wil prevent it. A different issue would be if you ripped apart an older model OMC transom bellows.

    I am about to make a posting regarding how the tilt system works (both 4 and 2 wire), as too many people seem to have a problem understanding it. I suggest you read it, because once you understand how it works, troubleshooting faults in the tilt system should be a piece of cake."
    [URL]http://www.grandmaraismichigan.com/Recreation/fisherman.gif[/URL]

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    , Langkawi, Malaysia
    Posts
    5,750

    Default "El: "Also, even if your

    "El:
    "Also, even if your bellows gets ripped apart, your boat will never get a drop of water inside, because the seals int he bellhousing wil prevent it. A different issue would be if you ripped apart an older model OMC transom bellows."

    Do not quite agree to this. The only thing that prevents water from entering if bellow is 'toast' is the grease in the intermediate housing bearings. There are no water seals, only some seals to try to keep the grease in the bearings."

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ladysmith, BC, Canada
    Posts
    5,862

    Default "Morten, I have to disagree wi

    "Morten, I have to disagree with your view on this one. As long as the bellhousing shaft is intact and the u-joint yoke is in place, the two lip seals (inner and outer) will (should) prevent water from entering the boat."
    [URL]http://www.grandmaraismichigan.com/Recreation/fisherman.gif[/URL]

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    , Langkawi, Malaysia
    Posts
    5,750

    Default "Just speaking from experience

    "Just speaking from experience, having taken up numerous 'submarines' with broken bellows.
    As long as the yoke is not stainless, the rather quick corrosion build-up will wear down the lip seals (rear), wash the grease out of the bearing -and .....
    Next is the leakage between the shaft and inner yoke splines that has no seals, water goes straight into the bearings.
    Then add that the drive oil seal is a one-lip seal and only prevents oil from going out, not water from entering the drive."

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ladysmith, BC, Canada
    Posts
    5,862

    Default "Morten, I am not questioning

    "Morten, I am not questioning your experience (God forbids!!) but the arrangement in the VP AQ bellhousings seems to me nearly foolproof. The inner and outer lip seals, if correctly installed (both of them with the spring facing the outdrive) will prevent pressure from the u-joints side from reaching inside the bellhousing. I am not talking about a drive bellows that breakas and nobody does anything for weeks or months (I guess that when the u-joints become noisy enough they will end doing something.....well, maybe not always). Yes, the yoke is made out of forged or cast steel, but that high-carbon alloyed steel will not corrode or suffer from electrolysis overnight, and the outer seal (if properly installed) will prevent water from entering the bearing chamber. And even if water entered the bearing chamber, the inner seal would stop it from entering the boat. Those seals are of identical construction than the ones installed on the raw water pumps, even the springs are (supposed to be) stainless.

    In summary, you would have to blow both the inner and outer seals and disintegrate the bearing(s) before a drop of water would enter the boat.

    Having said that, I admit that strange things can and do happen every now and then, but those strange things should be the exception rather than the rule.

    Water enetring the drive or ruined u-joints because of a damaged bellows is another story.

    Cheers."
    [URL]http://www.grandmaraismichigan.com/Recreation/fisherman.gif[/URL]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Posts
    89

    Default I have to disagree as well...

    I have to disagree as well... When my bellows ripped it leaked into the boat. After I changed the bellows it ran perfectly. Those bearings are in good shape and were replaced last year... They are still running good after they leaked. It won't pour in but it will drip a slow steady stream through the bellhousing...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ladysmith, BC, Canada
    Posts
    5,862

    Default "Jamie, as I said, strange thi

    "Jamie, as I said, strange things do happen every now and then. I am sure that many of the forum readers have experienced for example a leaky raw water pump or a leaky water circulating pump. However, people who know how those seals are designed to work would not take those isolated cases as evidence that that all mechanical and all lip seals do normally leak at all times. Reality proves that it is a rarity when those seals do leak; and when they leak is because they are damaged to the point that they have reached the end of their useful life (many times due to operator's neglect). So what you mention does not surprise me at all (especially, after all the weird things you say have happened to your boat)."
    [URL]http://www.grandmaraismichigan.com/Recreation/fisherman.gif[/URL]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Posts
    89

    Default "Well my boat def not neglecte

    "Well my boat def not neglected but there are some mistakes I have made unintentionally [img][/img] Expensive mistakes. My bearings seem fine even though they leak, maybe I will pull my outdrive and check them again. Other than that maybe the machinest who installed the bearings put the seals in wrong? Obviously you have more knowledge then me on volvo marine and I suppose anything to do with boating and I am not saying that you are wrong... Just saying that mine leaked which was scary, and I changed the bellows right away and checked the bearings and they were ok and I greased them and greased the U-joints... There was no play in any of the parts. After that incident it ran perfect with no noise...

    I do seem to have a real problem with tearing bellows though. Other than misuse (raising drive when I shouldn't be) what causes bellows to rip? Anything in particular I should check or be proactive about?

    THanks alot"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Posts
    89

    Default "Reading through your post aga

    "Reading through your post again, my bearing may be fine but my seal could be bad. I will check that again also. Maybe I can get away with just changing the outer seal instead of pulling the engine and bellhousing.... There is no strange noises coming from the bearings, and no real play in them either... Clearly something is wrong and I don't want to worry about that bellows ripping and leaking."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ladysmith, BC, Canada
    Posts
    5,862

    Default "A bearing that has been expos

    "A bearing that has been exposed to water (even if fresh water) will fail at a much faster rate than normal. Greasing the bearing(s) will not remove the water nor eliminate the danger of premature failure.

    I have seen the seals installed in two different ways: the springs facing towards each other, and both springs facing the outdrive. To me, the latter is the correct way, as lip seals are designed to seal under pressure on the side the spring is located, but not if the pressure is on the other side. If the seals are installed witht he springs facing the outdrive, it will be more difficult for water to enter the bearing chamber should the bellows fail, and also any excess of pressure caused by the grease due to overgreasing might be released into the u-joints chamber before the seal is blown.

    Some of the reasons for a ripped bellows include wrong installation (look for a mark in the wider area indicating "up" and make sure that the side of the bellows is installed upwards) and also rubber deterioration due to old age or exposure to a corrosive agent."
    [URL]http://www.grandmaraismichigan.com/Recreation/fisherman.gif[/URL]

  12. #12
    jamie221's Avatar
    jamie221 Guest

    Default "I keep ripping them. 3 now. I

    "I keep ripping them. 3 now. Im always careful to put it on right. The first one failed with age. The second one i suspect due to me driving without leg fully down, now i just changed it this weekend and ripped it the first day and was very careful to not drive until the drive was fully down. Now I discovered the reverse lock is jaming and therefore raising the drive in reverse. A new problem which may have ripped the bellows. But i was in reverse for less than 5 minutes the whole weekend so that sucks.....

    I'm going to run through the whole boat, redo all wiring, check all connections and functioning equipment like reverse locks so that I don't have more of these problems.

    THanks for your help"

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