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Flushing my engine and then shutoff

W

wbertot

Contributing Member
So after a great weekend in th

So after a great weekend in the water where i used the boat friday -> monday I get home tonight and start to flush the VP 5.0 GXi the same way I always do. Motor was running fine for about 5 mins or so and then it just shut down on its own.

Now I am trying to start the engine and it will not fire up. The engine is turning over and the starter has plenty of juice from the batteries. i still have 1/2 tank of gas and the lanyard is properly secured.

Any ideas what could have gone wrong here?
 
Update: I got the engine star

Update: I got the engine started after letting it sit for an hour. Fired up immediately on turning the key. However i imediately turned on the water with the muffs and after a few seconds with the water running in the muffs she shut down!

Now she is turning over again just as before. I feel her about to start up but i guess I need to give it some time! Any insight as to what is going on here? Could water be getting into the motor? I just replaced the risers in manifolds last September so I am hoping to rules those out.
 
"To find out whether or not yo

"To find out whether or not you are getting water, remove the spark plugs and crank the engine. If there is water, you will see it blowing from the cylinders.

Not sure why your engine is stalling. If you have an emergency stop switch, it could be acting-up. Same could be said about your ignition switch: if faulty, the engine may stall.

It could aslo be that the engine is flooding with too much fuel, in this case, follow the manual's indications: <font color=""0000ff"">Advance the control handle to full throttle to clear a flooded engine. In this throttle position, with the engine speed below 400 RPM (cranking speed), the ECM turns off the fuel injectors so no fuel is delivered. When the throttle position is moved from full throttle, the ECM returns to the starting mode. Be prepared to quickly move the control handle to IDLE once the engine starts. This will avoid over speeding and possibly damaging the engine.</font>

Not sure if this will help, but you have to start troubleshooting somewhere."
 
Thanks Pescador!

I will rem

Thanks Pescador!

I will remove the plugs today and see what that reveals.

Just out of curiosity if I did have water in any cylinder would i be able to start the engine?
 
Pescador or anyone else who mi

Pescador or anyone else who might be able to help....

Today I started the motor up fine turned on the muffs right away and the engine kept running!

Now when i moved her up to 1200 RPMs she was not running smoothe and at 2400 RPMs you could see that something is not firing correctly.

I hope to remove the plugs later today after work to see if there may be any water but being that she is starting up ok today and running on the muffs is there anything else i should be looking for?

Thanks in advance for all help it is greatly appreciated!
 
"From the engine manual:

[i

"From the engine manual:

<font color=""0000ff"">Engine protection mode (EFI systems)

In a low oil pressure or engine overheat situation, the EFI system enters an engine protection mode and an optional warning horn will sound if installed on or under the instrument console. In these situations, normal engine operation is limited to 2500 RPM or less. Above 2500 RPM the engine will exhibit poor running characteristics. Use the oil pressure and water temperature gauges to verify a problem exists, then check the engine for proper oil level and the water inlets for obstructions. The low oil pressure/engine overheat problem must be corrected before the engine will return to normal operation and the warning horn is silenced.

To reset the engine protection mode after the problem is corrected, shut off the engine, then restart it.

NOTE! If the problem continues, contact your nearest Volvo Penta dealer and have the engine checked.</font>"
 
Oil pressure is great. Temp i

Oil pressure is great. Temp is 140. Engine will go over 2500RPM so I don't believe I am in engine protection mode.

Pulled plugs and there was no water.

I start to see hesitation at the 1200 RPM and even more apparent at 2400 RPM. My novice opinion is that it is burning very rich cause I smell the gas stronger than normal out of the exhaust. Also there is some white smoke coming out of the exhaust.

Next steps?

Thanks in advance

Walter
 
"LI Monterey,

No question w

"LI Monterey,

No question with me is silly since I do not have the experience or knowledge (yet) to figure this stuff out on my own.
wink.gif


I have not checked the rotor and cap. I will take a look at that. I will let u know of my findings.

Thank you,

Walter"
 
Rotor and cap looked ok. I am

Rotor and cap looked ok. I am going to go ahead and replace them anyhow since I am already in there and I would have done so in August.
 
Doesnt white smoke indicate bu

Doesnt white smoke indicate buring oil? Black smoke means too rich...white smoke is usually not a good sign. Anyone else?
 
"Ken,

Yesterday when I was

"Ken,

Yesterday when I was down at the boat I noticed a little bit of oil on the flame arrestor. When I looked at the dipstick the oil was slightly higher than the "safe" zone. Would this explain why there would be that white smoke and odd engine behavior? I plan on cleaning the arrestor, throttle body, and replacing plugs right now as well as running something to clean my fuel injectors all after redoing the oil change.
Thoughts?"
 
"Walter, Did you add any oil?

"Walter, Did you add any oil? Trying to figure out why it would be higher than the safe level if you didnt... Is there any indication of water in the oil?"
 
"Ken,

Routine Maintenance w

"Ken,

Routine Maintenance was done a month ago. I confess I personally had not looked at the stick until now. So it may have been overfilled since then.

No indication of any water in the oil.

Walter"
 
I went ahead and adjusted the

I went ahead and adjusted the engine to the proper level level. Cleaned up the flame arrestor and throttle body.

Did a compression test with 120-150 on 8 cylinders.
Went ahead and put new plugs in while I was doing the compression tests.

Tried to start it and it would not start! Engine sounds like it is about to start (coughs) but never does. From what I could see there was a bit of greyish smoke coming out the exhaust but it was dusk so I am not sure.

I feel like I am going backwards here. Please help me!
 
"Walter:

My advice is to fo

"Walter:

My advice is to follow El P's recommendations from his earlier posts. It sounds like it may be time to bite the bullet and pay someone to troubleshoot it.

"NOTE: If the problem continues, contact your nearest Volvo Penta dealer and have the engine checked"

Best of luck...

Ken"
 
"She finally started but is ru

"She finally started but is running rough and from the smell extremely rich. I need to give her a little gas to keep her running.

Ken, maybe you are right in that I should take it to a Volvo Penta Dealer but I don't think I have exhausted all the troubleshooting steps which I am capable of doing."
 
Well the rotor and cap were re

Well the rotor and cap were replaced today. Good news is the engine fires up right away.

I am still not convinced though everything is 100%. The engine although running a lot healthier still is not as "smooth" as i remember it being. Per the recommendation of another member on another thread I have added Lucas Oil treatment to my fuel to treat the injectors.

Does anyone think my timing could be off?
 
"Walter, glad to hear you are

"Walter, glad to hear you are back in business. IMO you might as well check the timing. Its easy enough... Also, how old are the plugs and plug wires? If the cap and rotor were bad... wires / plugs might need a change too. Personally, I like the shotgun approach and just fix it all and forget it. Better than a ruined day on the water and a tow back to the docks."
 
Plugs are brand new I went ahe

Plugs are brand new I went ahead and did them when doing the compression check.

As for the wires I am not sure since I have only had the boat for just under a year but I have not touched them since.

I have ordered the wires and plan to check the timing tomorrow.

Walter
 
"Walter,

You may want to s

"Walter,

You may want to start looking at the throttle body. If you suspect it is running rich you may have an obstructed / faulty IAC (idle air control) solenoid. The IAC regulates bypass air entering the engine and trims the idle of the engine. (Part #21)

The ECS (engine coolant sensor) may also be faulty. When the engine is cold the ECM (electronic control module) injects more fuel into the engine. Once warm the ECM reduces the quantity of fuel to stabilize idle. If the ECS is telling the ECM the engine is constantly cold, the engine will run rich. Don't rely on your temp. gauge, as many engines have more than one temp sensor.

The TPS (throttle position sensor) may also be faulty. This sensor regulates fuel delivery based on the position of the throttle. Perhaps the TPS is outputting to the ECM that the engine is at 1/2 throttle when in fact it is only at idle. The ECM will therefore deliver too much fuel and the engine will run rough. (Part #17)

A fuel pressure regulator may also be faulty (Part #2). This is easy to test. Too much pressure will overcharge the injectors.

I would recommend picking up a Seloc manual for your engine. A good manual should list what the resistances of EFI sensors should be and you can test the ones on your engine with a multimeter. A scantool, if available is also extremely beneficial, but not always needed.

In my experience, I have seen IAC solenoids and TPS's go regularly. You may want to start here. Good luck.

http://www.volvopentastore.com/Throttle_Body/dm/cart_id.110176446--category_id.3 32726--list_time.1213237377--session_id.162732896--store_id.366--view_id.322320"
 
"Mike

Thank you for your po

"Mike

Thank you for your post. This is a ton of help. Your timing is perfect I already have the Seloc manual and also got an inexpensive scantool that I picked up on ebay in the mail today.

I hope to be able to get out to the boat tomorrow and look at the sensors. Pointing me in the right direction will help me figure this out no doubt.

Thanks again,

-w"
 
"You are welcome. Just take y

"You are welcome. Just take your time and be thorough, EFI systems are not overly difficult to troubleshoot if you take the time to understand how they operate and are willing to test each component.

What type of scan tool did you purchase?"
 
UPDATE:

I was able to get t

UPDATE:

I was able to get to the boat today in between the monsoons that have been falling here.

When I got there the boat would not start. Cranking and turning over just fine but would not start.

I attached my new scan tool but only got 12 over and over (system ok)

I went ahead and installed the new plug wires that finally came in.

2 interesting things...

1. the cable on cylinder 8 had a small tear in it which i only saw when i pulled the old cables out.

2. the volvo penta cables that go with this engine which i bought at my VP dealer were different in size 7mm vs 8mm.

After installing the cables I was hoping based on the 2 things above she would fire right up.

Unfortunately she did not. Then to add to my problems a new storm came over and I had to stop my troubleshooting.

One thing I have noticed is that water has been getting into the bilge during the episodes I have been having problems with it starting

washing the boat (just hosing off the deck) the first post 5/26
cleaned the bilge after doing plugs and compression check 6/9
rain all day 6/17 (today)

The engine room has been covered as usual and the plastic engine cover over the engine and electrical components. Not sure if it is related or not but I am starting to believe this is not coincidence.

I appreciate all of you who have stuck with me thus far. If anyone has any further ideas on this please share. Tomorrow I will check ignition and fuel again (just in case) and then go to testing the sensors.
 
"Walter,

When you head back

"Walter,

When you head back down check for spark. You can do this with a spark tester, or by carefully positioning a screwdriver inline with a plug and holding it next to a good ground (manifold bolt).

Is there any chance that water is running down your motor box and falling onto your distributor? A wet distributor will make for hard starting and rough running. A spray of CRC, or WD40 usually helps.

If you have spark, verify you have fuel at the TB. If you have both spark and fuel, I have a gut feeling you may have a bad TPS (throttle position sensor). Or a stuck IAC (idle air control) solenoid. It is not uncommon for these devices to be bad and not send a code to the ECM. I would start by pulling the IAC, inspecting it, and cleaning it. Pop the IAC back on and try starting the engine. You may want to swap a new TPS on and see if that clears things up. The cost of a new TPS will be far less than the cost of one hour labor at your local VP service yard.

Let us know how you make out. Good luck - and stay dry."
 
"Walter,

Try some TB clean

"Walter,

Try some TB cleaner, or brake cleaner and an old toothbrush. You will most likely find some black carbon around the small piston inside. You can also turn the key to the ON position and verify you have voltage going to the IAC plug."
 
"Walter,
Have you tried using

"Walter,
Have you tried using "Clear Flood Mode" when it won't start. Based on what your saying about smelling rich, it might help get it started. Not saying it's going to cure the problem, but if it works, you know you have a flooding condition.

I don't think your problem is IAC related. You can't "verify voltage" as suggested above (the IAC is a stepper motor that uses a computer generated signal of rapidly reversing polarity).

What year is you engine?

Dave

p.s. We spoke on the phone the other day (I sell the code tools on ebay)."
 
"Hi Dave,

Good to see you h

"Hi Dave,

Good to see you here. The engine is a 2003.

I have used the "clear flood mode" in the past when I have had issues to get it started.

Walter"
 
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