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AQ171C Bellhousing bearing removal renewal amp UJoint spider replacement

dsc652

Member
"Hi there,

Can anyone tell


"Hi there,

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to pull the primary shaft and bearing from the bellhousing without having to take the engine out of the damned boat?

Can the shaft be drilled and tapped and then pulled by using a slide hammer ?

Can the seals then be renewed and as importantly can the shaft and bearing then be re-inserted / re-located?

To take the engine out will be a real "screamer" for me.

If I have to - I suppose I have to !!

On a similar topic, can the U-Joint spiders and bearing caps be replaced on a 290 SP drive without having to take the upper gear housing apart ? It looks like it is possible to remove and replace the caps from the yoke that is embedded in the gear housing - but then again maybe not.

Has anyone been over this ground before ?

Any help you can give me would be much appreciated.

Regards,

Doug"
 
"1) It is possible, but no

"1) It is possible, but not recommendable. At the end, it would take less effort (and it is much safer) to pull bellhousing and engine together.

2) There should be no need to do that if you choose to go that way. Once you remove the circlips and the aft seal, the primary shaft should come out with the bearing (if it is not stuck in the absorber splines or in the pilot bearing).

3) You need to pull the bellhousing to renew the forward seal.

In summary, I would pull engine and bellhouwing if I were you. You will be glad you did.

Regarding the second topic, the short answer is "no": you have to either remove the upper gear assembly or the whole outdrive, because otherwise you won't be able to remove the aft spider. It is not a big job, though. The Seloc and Clymer manuals tell you how to, and you can also download this manual online for free:


http://www.mybayliner.co.uk/boatmad/280285290.pdf"
 
"Hi el_pescador,

Many thank


"Hi el_pescador,

Many thanks for your input, very helpful.

Re the first query, to take the engine out of the boat where she is currently located would not be an easy job. No mains power, no lifting tackle etc.

If I renew the bearing and the outer seal only what is the downside ?

When you say "Once you remove the circlips and the aft seal, the primary shaft should come out with the bearing"

Assuming it is not "stuck in the absorber splines or in the pilot bearing" should it come out quite easily ?

Should I drill and tap the end of the primary shaft and use a slide hammer to pull it and the bearing ? Or is that not necessary ?

Have you seen the shaft & bearing being pulled without removing the engine and detaching the bellhousing ?


Re the second query, I have already removed the outdrive and have it in my garage. Is it now possible to renew the spiders without having to dismantle the upper gear housing ?

The access around the yoke which is connected to the upper gear drivetrain looks limited. I did not wish to start the job and not be able to complete.

I do not really want to interfere with the gear housing if possible - I do not wish to add to my existing workload !!


Regards,


Doug"
 
"Doug - I have a 280/285 outdr

"Doug - I have a 280/285 outdrive and with the upper gear case removed from the outdrive, my dad and I, the xtra hands helped, changed both u-joints without removing the input shaft from the gearcase. At first I didn't think it was possible but we did it.

You don't have to remove the whole outdrive to replace the u-joints, just the upper gear case.

The bearings/seals in my bellhousing were completely wiped out so I had to support the engine, move is forward and remove the bellhousing to replace bearings and seals.

This was an AQ231 Small Block Chevy.
Use plenty of penetraing oil, it does help.

Good Luck, Gilbert"
 
"Hi Gilbert,

Many thanks fo


"Hi Gilbert,

Many thanks for your input.

I have removed the outdrive completely as I wanted to renew all of the bellows, the hook up bushes etc and sort out the U-Joint spiders at the same time (which I though were really my only problems).

Once that lot was removed I now suspect that the bellhousing bearing and seals (at least the rear one) are shot.

Rather than put it all back together to find that the b/housing bearing has gone, it is as well to renew it this time around.

Pulling the engine forward and removing the b/housing in-situ is not really an option for me as space is tight. The engine would have to be lifted out of the boat.

If it is at all possible to renew the b/housing bearing whilst the engine is still in the boat, that is the route I would rather take.

It is a bummer to have to lift the whole lot out to renew a bearing costing $20 approx. Who designed these VP units this way ??

Getting the engine out will not be easy.

I know of a guy who refurbs complete U Joints but he is unwilling to sell me the yoke (fine spline) which engages with the primary shaft on its own. The yoke I have has an irregular grove cut into the outer face where the oils seal makes contact. If I install a new oil seal whilst it is in this condition it would damage it after a few revolutions.

I would much rather renew the spiders as you have done without disturbing the upper gear casing and causing me more probs with the outdrive. I may have to buy a complete U Joint from him in a dismantled state and fit new spiders to it when it arrives.

Who said boating was fun !!


Thanks again,


Best Regards,


Doug"
 
"Douglas,

If there were saf


"Douglas,

If there were safe shortcuts, everybody would be doing them. A few reasons to remove engine and bellhousing together include: 1) You will have a hell of a time removing the bearing outer race if the bearing is in pieces; 2) You will have to clean thoroughly the whole housing and replace the inner lip seal, and I don't see how you can do that from the outside; 3) You may accidentally pull and drop the crankshaft pilot bearing when attempting to remove the primary shaft; 4) You need to verify the condition of the splines in the vibration damper, as they may have been exposed to water and fretting; 5) Because it is the only way in which you can verify that all components are in good condition and that they have been correctly assembled; and 6) Because it is the easiest way I know to do the job and the one that the repair manuals describe.

IT may be a bummer to remove it, but once you do it and grease the bearing regularly or install a sealed bearing, chances are you will nothave to do that job again for as long as you own the boat.

Regarding the second part of your problem, the 27-groove fine spline yokes are neither easy nor cheap to get. If you cannot smoothen the one you have, you may want to get a whole assembly. The part number for the whole u-jount assembly is 3860230 (part 25 on the following link). Some sites like sterndrive.com will sell you the yoke, but two years ago they wanted $200 for a used one; that's why I say you may be better off buying the whole assembly.

And yes, boating <font color=""ff0000"">IS</font> fun (if you can afford it).
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http://www.dougrussell.com/partscatalog/volvo_omc/index.cfm?fuseaction=comp&grou p=1999&GroupList=2008,2007,1982,1981,1992,1993,1994,1995,1996,1997,1986,1980,197 9,1983,2006,2005,1985,1990,2012,1991,1987,1998,2000,2003,2001,2004,1984,1989,201 0,1988,2011,2009,1999,2002"
 
"Hi El Pescador

Many thanks


"Hi El Pescador

Many thanks again for your very knowledgeable input into my problems.

I actually have a spare bellhousing and damper plate for the engine, the components of which look to be in good shape.

However, rather than take a chance of another failure I intend to have it professionally refurbed with all new seals and bearings ready for installation after I lift the engine out as you have recommended.

I will also have a professionally refurbed U-Joint fitted and the upper gear case serviced ready for re-installation.

I will also renew the pilot bearing when it is exposed.

Anything else I should consider - a new engine perhaps !!

I think everyone involved with boats has fun from time to time, but I am sure you will agree that there are times when you wish you hadn't bothered !

Thankfully I can afford to have these repairs carried out.


Doug.

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"
 
"Douglas,

Renewing the two


"Douglas,

Renewing the two seals and one or two bearings(depending on the bellhousing model) is not rocket science, and virtually any person with some mechanical abilities and appropriate tools should be able to do it; and it should cost about $50 or less in materials. The advantage of doing it yourself is that it gives you a better understanding of the equipment you have, and its actual condition at the time of installation. Conversely, the disadvantage is that, if you screw-up during the installation, you only have one person to blame : yourself (but again, that's how you leran!!). I have had many things "professionally rebuilt" in the past, and I ended having to do the job again by myself several times just to make sure it was done properly.

Re-powering is a personal matter. As far as I am concerned, any engine will work for as long as you want, provided you keep pouring money into it. I don't know what type of boat you have (or its condition), but if your engine power is borderline you may want to consider upgrading to a V-6 or a V-8. In that case, the cheapest option would likely be purchasing a whole power plant (engine and outdrive) in good condition, but I would only do that if I really wanted to keep the hull. Many times, it is just better to get another boat (but be careful, you may be inheriting someone else's misery).
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"Hi El Pescador

Your input


"Hi El Pescador

Your input is again much appreciated.
I will strip the bellhousing locally rather than send it off for repair.

The U-joint is another matter as the outer face of the "cup" will require some serious work to remove the irregular grove which has been cut into it by the oil seal. Think I would rather play safe and replace the entire unit with a "professional" job.

You mentioned in an earlier post a "sealed bearing" - there is only one bearing in my B/h (B/h is VP part No 855611). Presumably the sealed bearing is not a standard VP part, but a bearing manufacturer solution ?

We have a local supplier, if I give him the bearing number will he be able to supply a "sealed" equivalent ?

My boat is a 23ft Carver sports cruiser which is in very good condition. The 2.5 litre 170hp DOHC engine will work her up to 28 knots - fast enough for me.

Re-powering not a consideration at the moment - powerplant is in good nick and starts on the button.

No new boat either - my wife does not understand the present running costs !!

Boat is called "Upper Limitz" - well named - both in terms of speed and level of expenditure !

What do you enjoy ?

Regards,


Doug


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"
 
"Doug, if you give the bearing

"Doug, if you give the bearing number to a local supplier, or bring the current bearing as a sample, they will find an equivalent sealed unit."
 
"Hi again,

Report on Work i


"Hi again,

Report on Work in Progress :-

U-Joint and Upper Gear Housing completely re-furbed. New spiders and forward yoke section.

Ancillaries removed from engine, both manifolds, starter, alternator, power steering pump, electrics etc.

Engine removed from boat and shipped to my garage at home.

Bellhousing removed from engine - what a performance !

Thrust plate was seized to primary shaft spline. Primary shaft was seized in the pilot bearing. The only way to get it off was to destroy the gimbal bearing, followed by griding the heads of the rivets off the thrust plate and destroying it (one of the springs was broken, so it was knackered anyway) leaving the primary shaft attached to the engine.

Primary had then to be "shocked" out of the pilot bearing !

If I had drilled into the bellhousing and released the thrust plate from the flywheel I doubt if I would have got it off !! The primary shaft was seized in the pilot bearing which was not in a good state.

As I say, I have got everything out / off apart from the outer race of the pilot bearing which is still lodged in the end of the crankshaft.

I nearly got the bearing out by hitting the primary shaft with a hammer in the direction away from the flywheel until the inner race finally collapsed. Then I gave the outer a tap with a cold chisel in an attempt to crack it and remove it - all I suceeded in doing was driving it back in !!

Anyone have any ideas - other than having to buy a slide hammer and a blind bearing remover ?

It has been a pig of a job but what I have discovered is that it all required doing to avoid a catastrophic failure.

el-pescador was spot on the dot that if it needs doing it should be done right - the right way !

Many thanks for your help and advice el, much appreciated.

Lucky that I have a spare bellhousing and thrust plate eh ?

Hopefully, I will get this all put back together before the summer runs out in Bonnie Scotland !!


Regards,


Doug


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"
 
"Doug, have you tried to rent

"Doug, have you tried to rent or borrow a slide hammer from a shop or a tool rental place rather than buying one?
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In any case, type into Google images the words <font color=""ff0000"">pilot bearing removal tool</font> and see a number of gadgets available for that job.

Also, did you remove the lock ring (part 25) prior to attempting to remove the pilot bearing? (Guess you did, but I thought I should ask anyway)

http://www.volvopentastore.com/CRANKSHAFT_AND_RELATED_PARTS_AQ171C/dm/cart_id.65 7400424--category_id.332876--list_time.1211316882--session_id.604874698--store_i d.366--view_id.323944

You could also try to zip cut the outer race with a Dremel tool if you have enough space."
 
"Hi el_p,

Got it out !!


"Hi el_p,

Got it out !!

Yes, I had removed the locking ring at an earlier stage in proceedings.

Made up a "puller" using a piece of flat bar with three holes drilled through (centre and 25mm spacing), two stainless steel bolts (heads filed down) a long centre bolt and several nuts to make sure the s/s bolts remained parallel.

I had previously cut into the outer race using my Dremel but I was frightened to go all the way through in case I damaged the bearing seating for the new bearing, causing further problems.

Entire engine now steam cleaned.

I will paint the block and oil pan before rebuilding. Hopefully it will now be an easier ride to re-assemble the giant jigsaw !!

I will keep you posted.

Once again, many thanks for your help and suggestions - you are obviously an expert on all things which have a VP badge on them.


Regards,


Doug.

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"You are welcome, Doug. Good l

"You are welcome, Doug. Good luck and please let us know how the project goes.
thumbs_up.gif


BTW, if your definition of "expert" is either "someone who has made more mistakes than anyone else" or "someone who has made three consecutive right guesses", then that's me.
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"
 
"Hi All,

Just an update and


"Hi All,

Just an update and perhaps a little more help.

Engine now re-painted and outdrive leg (AQ290 A SP) undercoated and almost ready for re-assembly. I have had other things to do around the house / garden etc. therefore this project has taken me a bit longer than I anticipated.

In the course of preparing the outdrive leg for painting I had it attached to a makeshift support with the power trim cradle in an upright position.

When I went to lower this back into its normal position I found that it would not engage with the reverse latch mechanism.

On further investigation I have found that a stainless steel "clip bracket" (guide washer ?) which is located between the reverse latch mechanism and the intermediate housing has been bent by the makeshift support I was using.

I have looked at the outdrive leg workshop manual, the Seloc manual and the exploded view on the Doug Russell website and this part is not shown.

Can anyone send me a picture or drawing of the stainless steel clip in its original shape as I do not want to bend the damn thing and break it or something else !

To replace it would entail dismantling the intermediate housing and the hook up fork assembly as this clip (guide washer ?)goes around the steering spindle.

On my unit this "clip" "guide washer" or whatever has a stainless steel screw which attaches it to the outdrive suspension fork.

As always, any help would be appreciated.


Regards,


Doug.


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"
 
"Hi
Just a little hint from S


"Hi
Just a little hint from Sweden.
Make sure that you change the belt and the pulley for the camshaft at the same time.
The 16V cylinder head is very expensive.
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Also make sure that you are timing the engine at the same time."
 
"Hi El,

I will take some pi


"Hi El,

I will take some pictures and upload them.

I have straightened it out (without breaking it) and think it is now close to the original shape.

Be in touch.

Regards,

Doug.

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"Hi Peter,

Thanks for the a


"Hi Peter,

Thanks for the advice.

Don't I know it !!

The number of 171's that have come to grief with the valves punching holes in the pistons are too numerous to mention.

I know one chap who had his engine simply idling in the marina when the belt went with no prior warning - result wrecked engine. Goodness knows what it sounds like and the results if it goes at high revs.

My belt is in good condition with a recently replaced pulley, it is also tensioned correctly and the timing is spot on.

When these engines are opened up they really go, but if they are not looked after and kept in tune they are a real pain in the ...

Do you run a 171 ??

Regards,

Doug.

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"
 
"Pictures of "clip" &#

"Pictures of "clip" "guide washer" on my 290SP A outdrive leg. I think it is now back in its proper position and is something like its original shape after I re-modelled it !!

If not, can you let me know what it should look like and I will have another go.

192490.jpg
Clip 1"">

192491.jpg
Clip 2"">

192492.jpg
Clip 3
 
"Hi
I have been able to stay


"Hi
I have been able to stay away from the 171, I have been close to buy a 171 but I decided to not in the end
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and are today running a new 5.7L Vortec engine from Michigan motorz. The 171 runs very nice and the fuel economy is very good as long as you are able to keep it alive but the cylinder head and the exhaust manifolds are very expensive. The engine runs very nice in the Volvo GLT series but again if not looked after very very expensive. Good luck with your repair and take a look on the exhaust manifold at the same time//Peter"
 
"Hi El,

Thanks,

Don&#39


"Hi El,

Thanks,

Don't think it is added - it stops the reverse latch from rising to far and alows the power trim cradle to come back to rest position. Without it holding the latch down, the cradle could not re-locate into the reverse latch.

If someone did add it, they were very adventurous, because they would have had to strip down the leg and remove the suspension cradle from the intermediate housing.

There is a similar clip (guide washer) shown on page 80 of the workshop manual for the leg which the steering spindle passes through between the suspension cradle and the intermediate housing.

I have used this picture to re-model my clip into the same configuration.

Hope it works !!


Regards,


Doug

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"
 
"Hi Peter,

You were wise to


"Hi Peter,

You were wise to steer clear of the 171.

They are good when they go, but they have a few nasty habits.

I replaced my exhaust manifold last season as the original had corroded internally and was allowing water into Nos 1 & 4 cylinders.

That failure caused me a lot of grief and ££££.
The previous owner ran the boat in salt water and it attacks the manifold very badly. I run on a fresh water loch therefore the replacement should last me much longer. The casting is very poorly designed in my opinion and is very expensive to replace. I know of a guy in Australia who fabricates stainless steel manifolds for the 171 - but they cost a fortune.


The electronic ignition module is also unique to the engine and due to the water ingress it shorted out and required to be replaced = more ££££ !!!

I sometimes wonder why I bother with the 171 I would have probably been better to turn it into a mooring years ago !!

It is one of those love hate relationships !!

Best regards,


Doug

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"
 
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