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Winterizing a boat - Need Huge Help

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CONNOR1

New member
:confused:


Hi, want to ask if you can winterize th boat with out turning the motor over. My water pump broke and don't have the money to fix right now. Can i winterize by not topping fuel just add stabilizer and pour antifreeze down to the water line and close the boat with a tarp.

Motor is a 5.7L Mercury Alpha One
Thanks for all your input greatly appriciate.

Connor
 
Follow your OEM service manual to the "T"

Drain all water from all cooling system ports.
Be sure to probe all drains as to eleminate any rust scale debris that may prevent all water from draining.
Air will not freeze and expand and cause expansion damage.

Using anti-freeze without draining afterwards is somewhat risky, in that any dilution to the anti-freeze will render it less capable of freeze protection.
This is NOT a risk that you should take, IMO.

You can properly "Fog" an engine in as little as 8 to 10 seconds.
In as little as 8 to 10 seconds, impeller removed, you can safely do a dry start while fogging.
8 to 10 seconds will not harm any of the rubber exhaust components!
I've been doing this for years..... no damage what-so-ever, and I'm very anal about this.

NOTE: your 5.7L engine is equipped with a "Dual Plane" intake manifold.
This means that an equal amount of fogging solution must make it's way into each plane.
IOW, down both the Port and Stbd primary bores of the carburetor!
Otherwise, you may not protect all eight cylinders equally.

Just as importantly, do this at 1,200 RPM, and then YOU (or a helper) kill the ignition while continuing to FOG.
This way combustion is not burning the last bit of fogging solution.

Do this as your very last and final engine procedure after an oil change to eliminate any acidity from old engine oil!

.
 
As Rick inferred, if you live in an area where freezing temps occur, you need to completely drain any water out of the block, manifolds, etc. as a minimum measure.
Otherwise you risk cracking the block, and your repair bill next spring will be several thousand bucks more.
Simply pouring anti-freeze into the cooling system with cooling water in it will not guarantee protection.
I gather your boat is in the water at a marina?

Rod
 
rod_stewart said:
As Rick inferred, if you live in an area where freezing temps occur, you need to completely drain any water out of the block, manifolds, etc. as a minimum measure.
Otherwise you risk cracking the block, and your repair bill next spring will be several thousand bucks more.
Simply pouring anti-freeze into the cooling system with cooling water in it will not guarantee protection.
I gather your boat is in the water at a marina?

Rod
Click to expand...

Ayuh,.... I Agree with Rick, 'n Rod....
Drainin' all the water out is the 1st step, of the Minimum effort...
Forget dumpin' antifreeze, anywhere...

Air just don't freeze...
 
bondo said:
Ayuh,.... I Agree with Rick, 'n Rod....
Drainin' all the water out is the 1st step, of the Minimum effort...
Forget dumpin' antifreeze, anywhere...

Air just don't freeze...
Click to expand...

Agreed, but you still need to fill it with anti freeze after you drain the water out. You cannot drain all the water out.

I would also remove the raw water feed hose from the t-stat housing and force anti freeze back through it to the drive.

Fogging a 4 cycle engine is not as important as the anti freeze.
 
+1 Dockside. I agree with the concept that air won't freeze but in some applications, you just can't get all the water out. Try that on an angled inboard big block Chrysler for example and you're definiately playing Russian roulette. I also prefer to have cooling passages submeged in fluid rather than exposed to air...it's a rust thing. IMO

Don't have enough info on the application but if applicable, don't forget to drain the cool fuel and lines going to hot water heater if equipped with a heat exchanger. Some applications had a check valve behind the engine in the raw water system above the cool fuel if I recall. Make sure no water is trapped above it.
 
...just add stabilizer...
Click to expand...
Then I would rock the boat for 30-60 seconds to get the fuel in the tank sloshing around to mix it.

If the circulating pump on the front of the engine is broken remove the drive belt before running the engine to fog. I would also drain the pump hose.
 
My thoughts:

Chris and Woodie, I agree..... if there is any residual water at any low points, it does pose a risk.

It also poses a risk if we add E/G and when it does not mix thoroughly with the residual water. We then close things up thinking that all is protected!
This is why some suggest doing so, but draining this again afterwards.
Now we have only air that will not cause expansion damage, and we have some E/G protection, both with the residual water, and with regard to iron oxidation protection.

Any rust scale caused by just plain air, will be so minimal, that it won't register on any scale (no pun intended).
I'll take the rust scale over the risk of residual water freeze expansion!
But then again, I don't own any open cooling system boats.

The other thing that is risky, is pulling E/G in through the out drive (or thru hull pick up), and then thinking that when we see E/G come from the exhaust, that we're done! NOT SO!
We must consider the raw water that the T stat is holding back, and that most raw water is going right on and through the exhaust.... giving us a False Positive!
Please DO NOT do this!
At least not without draining everything again afterwards.
I cringe when I see these videos advertising these systems, and that when you see E/G come from the exhaust, you're all done! :mad: :mad: :mad:



As for adding stabilizer to the fuel tank, do this during your last run, and let the boat do the shaking/mixing for you....... or, if you trailer, take the boat for a short ride down a rather lumpy road.
You can also remove the fuel filter, dump it into a container, and then add an oil rich mixture to it, re-install, and run the engine until this mixture reaches the carburetor, TBI or EFI.

For those with carburetors, fuel evaporation is what may cause issues.
Part way into the lay-up period, an oil rich fuel mixture can be added to the fuel bowl vents.
This will slow evaporation!
Pick yourself up one of these;
P61.JPEG

These work great for spring time start-up also... but with anything like this, use extreme caution!
I use one very similar, and it is always placed outside of the boat during starting.


Anyway, just my further two cents on the topic! :D

.
 
Docksidemarineservices said:
Agreed, but you still need to fill it with anti freeze after you drain the water out. You cannot drain all the water out.
Click to expand...

Ayuh,... By drainin the drain plugs, 'n makin' Sure they've drained,...
Then pulling a hose or 2,..
Any I/O motor can be drain of All it's cooling water...
A few teaspoons ain't gonna hurt a Thing...
A cavity has to be Full of water, for the ice to push against, 'n Crack it...

Granted, I live here on the sweetwater seas, 'n rust is a Non-issue,...
'ell, manifolds, 'n risers last a Lifetime, 'n Never need changin', unless frozen, 'n split...
In the salt, maybe there's some advantage to antifreeze,... Donno...
In freshwater, antifreeze is a Waste of money, 'n time....

Every Spring for atleast the last 10 years or so I've been bangin' on this keyboard, there's hundreds, if not Thousands of poor suckers who bought into the "Just feed it Antifreeze" routine, 'n have frozen busted blocks, 'n manifolds...
I see it Every single year...

Of course there's also abunch of guys who pulled the drain plugs, 'n walked away as well...
Ya gotta ream out the drains of crud, 'n make SURE things are drained...
I have a 3" SSteel deckscrew that resides on my intake manifold, Just for that purpose...

You also gotta be handy enough, 'n posses enough common sense to understand, Water flows Downhill....
If there's a downhill, 'n no drain at the bottom, pull a hose, or whatever it takes to Drain it...
 
Being a paid marine mechanic who is responsible for what I winterize here in NJ, I will continue to run engines up to running temp on fresh water and salt away, drain the engine and manifolds of all water and then fill with Anti freeze. FULL PROOF!
 
Docksidemarineservices said:
Being a paid marine mechanic who is responsible for what I winterize here in NJ, I will continue to run engines up to running temp on fresh water and salt away, drain the engine and manifolds of all water and then fill with Anti freeze. FULL PROOF!
Click to expand...

For 20 + years my method (very much the same as Chris) RV antifreeze not automotive........


I would give a specific method but if someone were to missinturprit it I would be blamed for there mishap..........

Should make a YOUTUBE video for 140, 470, 165, V6, V8 closed and non closed cooling motor driven impeller systems........

Maybe not..no money in it.............lol
 
Thanks for all you inputs


my info on the beginig statment was that the impeller system is out, i started the boat dry for 30-60 sec at max with acceloration and the motor seized. I posted a thread a while ago on how to fix it and the respond was also amazing (thanks ). I at this time can't afford to fix it and was wondering if i can somehow winterize other way. The motor will not turn over. The boat is on a trailer - if this makes a difference on winterizing. I thought to pour rv antifreeze -100 down the water in put+waste line, fuel tank is at low right now - and thought to pour stabilizer, and to remove batteries.

Again - my motor will not turn so i can't fog the carbourator,or drain the lines -
PLEASE HELP ME !!!
where i live in toronto the winter are up to -40 with wind.

I again thank you all
 
If the engine will not start, drain the block and exhaust manifold. Make sure you have a piece of wire to stick in the drain holes to clear any debris so the water will flow. After the water has been drained, remove the large water hose from the thermostat housing pour some -100 RV antifreeze into the hose. It will come out of the block drain. When it starts to come out of the drain, reinstall the drain plug and continue to pour anti freeze in until it comes out of the t-stat housing.

Next remove the smaller water feed line from the t-stat housing that comes from the drive. Pour antifreeze down this hose until it pours out of the drive.
Next remove the water feed hose that goes to the exhaust manifold, reinstall the drain plug and pour anti freeze in that hose until it comes out of the transom assembly exhaust port. Remove the drain plug from the exhaust when done.

As far as the fuel in the tank, pour a little sta-bil in and leave it.

If your engine is locked up the fuel is the least of your worries.

Read the container labels on the anti freeze they all gel at different temps.
 
bondo said:
Every Spring for atleast the last 10 years or so I've been bangin' on this keyboard, there's hundreds, if not Thousands of poor suckers who bought into the "Just feed it Antifreeze" routine, 'n have frozen busted blocks, 'n manifolds...
I see it Every single year...
Click to expand...
Yep!
This is usually a result of not quite knowing what you're doing!

I think that Chris' method is fine..... but he knows what he's doing. Many don't!



As someone mentioned, the fogging can become secondary to the cylinder block, cylinder head and manifold/riser protection under CONNOR1's circumstances.
Don't worry about fogging..... concern yourself with protecting these expensive cast iron parts!

.
 
IMHO, fogging a four cycle engine is a waste of time and money. How many of us have classic cars that we only drive in fair weather? I have two. When they are put up for the winter I do not fog there engines and one of them gets shrink wrapped and left out side.

Now a two stroke engine needs to be fogged.
 
Not sure what year your boat is but here is my instructions, This is for you only due to your situation!!!! (NON RUNNING MOTOR)


1. Romove drain plugs on both sides of engine near oil pan, poke thru with small screw drive to free up rust scale that will be clogging the holes see black line with grey dot for location on both sides of motor.

2. Loosen (very loose) hose clamps at thermostat housing on green, blue and red marked hoses and remove from thermostat housing all hose ends.

3. Loosen hose clamps at manifold end of yellow hose and remove to allow water to drain from manifolds.

4. Allow water to drain completely.

5. grab Red hose and bend it down into bildge, several cups of water will pour out, when done allow it to return to its upright position.

6. put both motor drain plugs back in.

7. reconnect manifold side of yellow hose and tighten hose clamp.

8. with ONE gallon of RV antifreeze, pour antifreeze into blue hose until pink comes out of outdrive (outdrive must be all the way down). The hose will fill up quick but the head pressure will push the water out, when it fills up wait a few seconds and refill again. This does not take much antifreese. When done reattach blue hose. done!

9. with the remaining antifreese use ~ 1/3 of it and pour equal amounts into the green hoses, when done reattch hoses and tighten clamps...done!

10. with the remaing antifreeze pour it into RED hose, this enters the block. When don reattach the red hose and clamp..........Done!

That is it...

Any questions??????????????????
 
Last edited:
Docksidemarineservices said:
IMHO, fogging a four cycle engine is a waste of time and money. How many of us have classic cars that we only drive in fair weather? I have two. When they are put up for the winter I do not fog there engines and one of them gets shrink wrapped and left out side.

Now a two stroke engine needs to be fogged.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, Never do it unless customer requests it..........

Two cycle engines have roller bearing rods and cranks and are on the atmosphere side/intake manifold of the motor and are extremely sensitive to rusting due to the magnetic nature of metal to metal bearing wear/use. Thus very prone to rusting. The fogging coats these and inhibits the rusting.

Regular 4 stroke motors the only contact area for the fogging agent is the intake/exhaust valve and piston top and cyclinder walls above the top ring. Yes some will dribble down into the cyclinder but NOT all the way around, Not good for the oil.

The cranks and cam and rods use a lead babbit type bearing and will not rust under short term storage.....IMHO
 
I think he means (think that is) he means he started it up and at WOT and it siezed on him. I hope it is not due to faulty winterization instructions..................................
 
I believe we should also suggest to CONNOR1 that maybe it would be a good idea that he might want to try removing all the spark plugs to check them & the cylinders for water, etc, then see if the engine will turn over with all the plugs out, before any more time goes to waste?:eek:
 
boat_tech said:
I believe we should also suggest to CONNOR1 that maybe it would be a good idea that he might want to try removing all the spark plugs to check them & the cylinders for water, etc, then see if the engine will turn over with all the plugs out, before any more time goes to waste?:eek:
Click to expand...

Agreed. And if that doesn't work then he can start saving money for a rebuilt long block next spring!

Rod
 
Docksidemarineservices said:
Being a paid marine mechanic who is responsible for what I winterize here in NJ, I will continue to run engines up to running temp on fresh water and salt away, drain the engine and manifolds of all water and then fill with Anti freeze. FULL PROOF!
Click to expand...

re: "who is responsible for what I winterize here in NJ"... Having owned I/O -Powered boats here on the "Jersey Shore" since 1964, I can say with AMAZEMENT that you are the first and only mechanic here in NJ who is willing to take responsibility for winterizing. Most of my friends have horror stories that start, " I paid the marina to winterize, .... continues into a " it broke/froze" story and ended with... " and the marina said it wasn't their fault, they did everything by the book". My hat off to you! Personally I think the issue is that often many marinas charge boat owners prime yard rates for that service and then have the newest cheapest guy in the yard actually do the work. One of these years, my wife will convince me that I'm getting too old to do this myself... Where are you located? My powerboat these days, winters at the LYC's parking lot.
 
sandkicker said:
........... Personally I think the issue is that often many marinas charge boat owners prime yard rates for that service and then have the newest cheapest guy in the yard actually do the work.
Click to expand...
Bingo!

I participate in another boating forum, and one member does this work for a marina in the late fall/early winter.
He's not a particularly mechanically inclined person.
Now get this..... he doesn't even winterize his own boat!
Yet he is hired to assist in the process for their customer's boats. :mad:
Now.... what does that tell you? :mad: :mad:


If you are being paid to properly winterize an engine, you'd best do it correctly, and you'd best stand behind it!
 
sandkicker said:
re: "who is responsible for what I winterize here in NJ"... Having owned I/O -Powered boats here on the "Jersey Shore" since 1964, I can say with AMAZEMENT that you are the first and only mechanic here in NJ who is willing to take responsibility for winterizing. Most of my friends have horror stories that start, " I paid the marina to winterize, .... continues into a " it broke/froze" story and ended with... " and the marina said it wasn't their fault, they did everything by the book". My hat off to you! Personally I think the issue is that often many marinas charge boat owners prime yard rates for that service and then have the newest cheapest guy in the yard actually do the work. One of these years, my wife will convince me that I'm getting too old to do this myself... Where are you located? My powerboat these days, winters at the LYC's parking lot.
Click to expand...



I am in Bayville 6 doors down from Ocean Gate Yacht Basin.
 
Thanks Too ALL
for great response.

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by CONNOR1i started the boat dry for 30-60 sec at max with acceloration and the motor seized
What i meant is that i ran it for 30-60 sec max time with slight acceloration.

Was told that the engine is the same as a car, and nothing will happen. But i guess the person knew as much as i. Then i found out that the engine cools with fresh water. Any way that again for GUGE HELP I thought that i wont be able to winterise and be more screwed than i am now. Will try to do work this weekend temp will be +25 till Monday with full Sun no clouds.

Will keep you posted

Connor1
Toronto, Canada
 
Wow, thought I was the only person on the planet that believed fogging a 4 stroke for short layups wasn't necessary. Ever try convincing a customer of that?!
 
+1 Kghost & Dockside. And +1 Rick, you absolutely must know what you're doing. The usual Spring threads on cracked blocks I suspect are due to lack of knowledge or lazy practices and oversights.
 
I used to say to potential customers when it was time to winterize,

Pay me $75.00 now or spend $5000.00 in the spring.

They were very happy to hand over $75 for piece of mind. (~1/2 hour labor and a gallon of RV antifreeze and some fuel stablizer)

Now that fee was 10 years ago and was for motor, fuel, winterization only but it was affective and never had a unsatisfied customer.

A local marine business dry winterizes, ( drains motor and put all hose clamps and plugs in a bag and cable ties to motor) They have anyone and everyone who works there do this, there has been many a cracked motor come spring time because some of the "everyone/anyone" were nothing but a bunch of yard monkeys who normally just do gopher stuff like moving boats around the propperty..........Some never learn even a marine business....
 
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