Considering buying 1988 Maxum w 85 hp Force

"Hi,
I am looking at possibly

"Hi,
I am looking at possibly buying a 1988 Maxum w/ 85 hp force. Does anyone have any thoughts or things to look for specifically with this boat and engine? Boat is in great shape, motor started right up. I will be taking it for a test run on a lake in a couple days.
I have also looked at a 1983 Bayliner w/ an 1986 88 spl Evinrude, This one I have taken out on the lake. Motor ran great, boat is in really good condition also.
Any comments or things to look on either boat would be appreciated, thank you..........Kevin"

The FORCE motors are a simple

The FORCE motors are a simple older design and have poor reputation in service shops (call a few shops and confirm )if the motors is not pushed to the limit it will serve you well.The EVINRUDE 88 is the same as the 90hp a proven design ( same from 79 to 98 ) and will serve you well.Regardless of which unit you buy a new waterpump impeller is a must do item.

"not-a-student,
Thanks for yo

"not-a-student,
Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. You basically said what I was thinking already.
Does anyone have anything good to say about Force Motors? Is getting parts an issue, since they have stopped making them? If everything being equal (boat wise) it sounds like I should go with the Bayliner w/ the 88 evinrude, regardless of how the Force engine runs in the lake.
Does anyone have any thoughts? Any comment is appreciated.............Kevin"

"Kevin, you are in a bit of a

"Kevin, you are in a bit of a 50/50 situation there.

The Maxum is a pretty decent boat. However, the Force is an Orphan.

If it's an 1988 model (same as the boat), it was built while Merc owned Force. It would have been cobbled together with mostly Chrylser outboard parts/designs.

If the motor runs, then it is an "ok" engine. However, in most cases, if it gives you any significant trouble, it should be scrapped and replaced.

The Bayliner is a "budget" boat - often referred to as the "Chevy" of the marine world. So the fit/finish/fine details etc will be somewhat (less) refined than the Maxum.

The 88 special was a "budget" version of the the regualar 90 horse, initially built as a lower cost alternative included on "package deals". It later became so popular that it ended up with all the bells/whistles of the 90 and was eventually discontinued.

It is however a well built engine and very much still supported by OMC/BRP.

The 88 special wasn't around when that Bayliner was built so it maybe safe to assume that this motor replaced whatever was originally on the Bayliner - probably a Force, since they owned Force until the whole shebang was bought out in 86 by Brunswick.

Unless the Maxum has a significantly lower asking price, which would make up the difference of an engine replacement if required, I personally would go with the Bayliner/EV combination..."

"Hi Kevin, I bought my first b

"Hi Kevin, I bought my first boat this year: 84 bayliner capri cuddy w/ 85 hp Force. I agree w/ everything that has been said! However, my boat/ motor was well taken care of, not abused and only used a few hours a year for the past 10 or so years (ONE owner) & I used it a lot this year. My suggestion when considering either package is find out as much as you can about each one (ask lots of questions). In general: Maxum is a better boat/EV is a better engine. I've had great fun w/ my set & this forum has been EXCELLENT! Good Luck..."

"Kevin, I will be fair to Forc

"Kevin, I will be fair to Force and echo what David said. If it was taken care of, they are a reasonable engine.

My buddy has a 1990 90 horse Force on a 17 1/2 foot Silvan (fish/ski). Has had it since new, we take care of it annually - new plugs/gear oil, impeller every second year - prepped for storage, decarboned in the spring.

It's almost 18 years old now, runs great, works fine and has only required the replacement of 1 coil in all those years.

So that motor is alot better than any OMC/Merc that is sitting in a shop - they break too.

If you can do the service work yourself, the Force could work for you. If you are going to need a dealer, then go with the OMC.."

Graham (always good readin

Graham (always good reading everything you write w/ all motors)
What do I do to prep the motor for winter storage? Thanks as always - dave

"Graham Lamb,
I appreciate yo

"Graham Lamb,
I appreciate your input! You stated everything I have been thinking. Do I go with the better boat (Maxum) with a some what questionable engine? or do I go with the Bayliner (not built as good with an engine I am very familiar with and trust.

The Maxum/Force is $400 less than the Bayliner/Evinrude. Not sure if this is enough savings for the potential problems I could end up with on the Force motor. Do you have any thoughts on this?

The lower unit on the Force definitly has hit something, the bottom skeg has been broken off, the engine went into gear on the trailer with no unsual noises or grinding and I did not see any lower unit oil leaking or anything unsual.

I know the 88 evinrude was just put on the bayliner in June and it was only used very little every year. It looks and runs great. I still need to do a test run on the Maxum/Force to see how it performs in the water, but I do know it started right up on the trailer. At this point I am with you, going with the Bayliner/ Evinrude.
If you can think of anything else, that may help me please let me know.

If anyone else has any comments, they would be appreciated.........thanks..........Kevin"

The 88 EVINRUDE is not a "

The 88 EVINRUDE is not a " budget " motor .It is " special " because it did not offer automatic oil injection ( bonus ) or power trim and tilt. Other than that the internal parts and everything else is the same as the regular 90 HP.Now the FORCE is a " budget " motor as when something goes wrong it will break your budget.

"Perhaps a poor choice of word

"Perhaps a poor choice of words - did not mean that the engine was "sub-standard" only that economically is was a "less expensive" model alternative than the 90 and that towards the end of the run, the specials cost as much as the 90 because of the demand for all the options.

As to which one to go with - if all else is equal, personally I would select the boat that better suits my needs, has the layout I was looking for, and better personal appeal. You shouldn't buy something just because someone "tells" you it's better.

A good used 80-90 horse motor in this vintage can usually be acquired for somewhere around 1000 bucks (guys want the higher horses now(200's and up).

And either of those motors could either a) fail tomorrow or b) run for 20 more years without incident - or something in between."

"You hit on a good point there

"You hit on a good point there Graham, "most guys want more horseys" One might consider the future and buy the boat that you think will a)last the longest and b)has the highest rating for engine power in the event you want to upgrade in the future. "

"Hi Graham, David, not-a-stude

"Hi Graham, David, not-a-student,

I appreciate all the info and opinions. Most of what has been said is what I was thinking already and agree with.

Does anyone have any clue's or things to look for when I test drive the Maxum/Force in the lake? Things that may tip off that the motor has possible problems. I have asked a lot of questions to the owner, but not everyone out there tells the whole truth. Should I run the motor a certain way when testing it, etc.........
The Evinrude was easy, as I am very familiar with them and know where and what to look for, I am just not that familiar with Force outboards. I know they are generally the same, but do the Force engines have signs that they are going down hill fast.

I agree Graham, either engine could die as soon as I get it home or last 20 more yrs. I am just trying to get more info about Force engines.

Again thanks for all your comments and opinions, this has been very helpful.

If anyone else has any comments I would like to hear them..........thanks........Kevin"

"Kevin, typically Force motors

"Kevin, typically Force motors are low qualty motors. I'm not an expert but I know that from boating for 30 years. I got lucky!!! The guy I bought it from (original owner) took care of it and really didn't use it the last ten+ years & I just knew this guy wasn't BSing me...The fact that the Force lower unit is damaged is NOT a good sign. Truthfully I would be "hard pressed" before owning another one. The motor isn't even made anymore.
FYI on my boat: 16' cuddy does almost 40mph. runs smooth at low & high speed. entire motor, lower unit & prop VERY clean/ no damage. My Rav4 pulls it pretty easy (anything bigger meant a second vehicle)I stay on the boat on weekends 2 -3 days. It fits my needs exactly right now, which was the most important Q I asked myself when looking for a boat. I hope this helps and really hope you get what you want. Keep writing in - the guys that write in know their stuff and have helped me a ton. gd luck dave"

"Hi David,
thanks for your op

"Hi David,
thanks for your opinions/comments. All the opinions and comments that have been posted have been very helpful. This is my first time using a web site like this and it has been very helpful. Basically most everyone is confirming what I was thinking, but just did not have anyone with enough kwowledge to bounce my thoughts off of.

I have already added this site to my favorites for future reference.

FYI - I will be passing on the Maxum/Force and going with the Bayliner/Evinrude after I take it for another test run and double check everything.
Not because of what people said on the site, but rather what I was thinking. I just needed someone to confirm that. My thought is the boat is going nowhere if the motor does not run and I cannot get parts for it. The boat should last a few years and if the engine is still running good, good used boats with blown engines are not hard to find.

Thanks to everyone who posted opinions/comments, I appreciate it.............Kevin"

"How important is the engine p

"How important is the engine primer that protrudes from the front of my 1998 Force 25hp motor? I inspected it, and the nylon part inside the rubber exterior "boot" has deteriorated. I have to shoot a little carb cleaner in the carb the first time I start it. Could that be because of the faulty engine primer? I have just put in a new fuel pump membrane and carburator kit. Starts and runs great after initial starting. Thanks"

"I have a 1988 17ft Bayliner

"I have a 1988 17ft Bayliner Capri open bow. It has the 85hp Force motor which has served me well, Although the boat is rated for a 85hp I want to go larger and faster. Any ideas? As far as the largest I can put on it? Also can anyone tell me the approx. weight of this motor?"

"The 85's went just a litt

"The 85's went just a little over 300 pounds - about the same as the 90's and some 115's.

The difference in speed on your particular rig between an 85 and 115 would be about 3 miles per hour, top end, under absolutely ideal conditions.

You can't really "safely" hang enough power off the back to make a significantly noticable difference. And infact, if you are looking at a new(er) motor, the 4 stroke weigh considerably more than older 2 strokes did at the same horsepower and even the 2 stroke DFI's are heavier.

About 3 years back a particular Lund model that I had my eye on suddenly went from a rating of 150 to 115 horsepower - I asked why - was told because a 115 4 stroke weighs more than a 150 2 stroke - it wasn't that the transom couldn't take it, but the extra weight (had you have hung a 150-4) would change the handling of the boat so severely that they considered it dangerous.

You don't want to kill yourself in pursuit of "MORE" speed - if the boat won't suit what you are after, with it's max horsepower, you should consider another rig..."

"Stay away from anything FORCE

"Stay away from anything FORCE, I would find a 1985 or newer 4 cylinder mercruiser I/O, 130hp-140hp, parts are everywhere and easy to work on"

I just bought a 1987 bayliner

I just bought a 1987 bayliner capri with a 85 hp o/b force motor. Obviously force is not the best (from what i have been reading) but since the boat is already bought what should i do to prolong its life?

"garrett, first welcome &

"garrett, first welcome & congrats on your boat. don't listen to the "naysayers" & their are plenty of them. i have a '84 capri w/ the 85 & have had fantastic results. this is a great motor for the diy guys like me & maybe you; old technology & easy to work on. now, change plugs, gear oil, & impeller first. everyone says ck compression also. i have not done that but if i feel i have to, i will. IF your motor was takin' care of you should have a pretty dependible set up...IF NOT, then you could have one fix after another.. so basically it comes down to HOW the motor was treated for the last 20 years. carbs should be cleaned out & adjusted so it's worth while to get an owners manual. i'm sure othes will chime in & give you some ideas..graham lamb, just-n-time & a few others can help you a lot! gd luck..."

"As David says, Forces reputat

"As David says, Forces reputation is alot worse than the actual motors ever were.

Yes, they are/were a budget motor, but a running Force is better than a junked Merc/EV.

Last winter I rebuilt a 1990, 90 horse for a buddy of mine. It ran great for 18 years and well over 2000 hours before it ate a piston. Prior to that we changed 1 coil, 1 cdi box and a starter (not bad for 18 years).

The total rebuild cost just on 1000 bucks and now he has a "like new" powerhead because we did all 3 pistons/rings/bearings etc. The motor could well last another 20 years now.

Compare that to the 8 grand you would have to drop for a new 90 horse Merc 2 stroke (which is still in production) and the 1000 dropped on the Force doesn't look so bad.

And yes, the motor runs exceptionally well, so we must have got all the nuts/bolts back in the right place "

I own an 85hp force outboard t

I own an 85hp force outboard that continuously gives me trouble on the initial start. Even when the fuel bulb is pumped tight the engine just continues to crank over. The only way that I can get it started is to spray starting fluid into the air vent and it takes right off. Once the initial start has been made the rest of the day is fine. Any solutions to this problem?

"Jerome,
Is your choke work

"Jerome,
Is your choke working?"

"If the chysler\force outb

"If the chysler\force outboard is running thats great!! but look at it this way your buying a boat and trailer only and if the price is right buy it. What ever enjoyment you get out of the force is a bonus until it blows up which they all do. Sorry"

"Jerome Dave is right from my

"Jerome Dave is right from my experience. I have a '89 Force 85 that has always been finicky starting. The choke works by turning the key part way and listening for a click in the engine. If you can't hear it, pull the cover and work the choke manually. Usually that gets it started."

"I was having a hard time turn

"I was having a hard time turning over my motor(1989 85hp) at initial start, and it turned out to be the starter. Even though it was turning the flywheel, not at the speed it needed.They have them, if you need it, at a great price at THIS web site! good luck"

I as well had a hard time turn

I as well had a hard time turning over my motor (1989 Force O/B 85HP). It was my first boat so after a little trial and error it has been working like a champ. I replaced the battery after a month of being stubborn ( I swore that it wasn't the problem). I also had to replace the starter. It was the original starter that was put on the unit. The local Marina people instructed me that it is difficult on a starter when there is low battery charge. Therefore you can burn up a starter real quick and as we all know Force parts are not abundant.

My question is how difficult is it to put a power tilt on the outboard motor that I discribed. I was looking into it (cost/benefit) analysis to see if it was worth it.

"Robert, an 85 horse outboard

"Robert, an 85 horse outboard weighs in the 300-375 pound range, and you have to get the motor off the bracket to install power trim/tilt.

I have an electric hoist in my garage which does the job nicely (I pull enough motors that it was a must), but you can lift a motor (complete but simply separated from it's bracket) with a block and tackle or even one of the ratchet style come-along's that sell fairly cheap at discount auto places.

It's not difficult to separate a motor from the bracket provided the tilt tube is not seized up. If it is seized usually a propane torch can convine the nuts to let go.

All in all I can either swap out or install a PTT unit onto a motor and get her all back together in a couple of hours. My point being, it's not all that labour intensive and definately something you could do at home.

It's usually the cost of the unit that you have to consider. A new OEM or aftermarket set up can easily set you back a thousand bucks or more.

Even a used unit salvaged from somewhere can still cost you a good few bucks.

You have to weigh that against whether or not your really need one.

If your boat has trim tabs you can probably live just fine without a PTT unit on your motor. It's main benefit would be tilting the the motor to the "trailer" position when you haul it out of the water.

If you don't have trim tabs, they could be an easier and cheaper alternative than a PTT unit, with the added bonus that they can help balance the boat should it be heavily loaded on one side.

I personally wouldn't invest alot of money in a Force outboard. It could last you another week, month, year or many years to come - but when it does go it's one of those things that isn't worth fixin' due to cost.

So don't know if I've helped any...."

"Graham, you have been very he

"Graham, you have been very helpful. As I was doing research on PTT, I noticed that unit itself might cost more than I bought the boat for ($1600). I have definately gotten my money's worth on the entire package, hull, trailer, and working motor. I am stationed in VA where I take it out on the James which is nice, fairly deep throughout. But when I took her down to SW FL for my R & R, I found myself suck quite a bit and not having PTT doesn't allow me to get too skinny.

I will probably keep as is and run her until she doesn't run anymore (although I desperately need to change the impellor and oil in the lower unit, the last owner did not do any of this). I have a soft spot on the boat so I may take that up as a project to learn on.

Do you have any recommendations or instructiona of how to replace a impellor for the force or the floor of a bayliner? Thank you for you instructions for the PTT"

"Robert, first off - sorry, th

"Robert, first off - sorry, this got a little long

To change the impeller I suggest you pick up a Clymers manual covering your motor. I'm not trying to cop out here, but the 85 Force is one of the biggest "mongrels" of the outboard world.

In 1988 alone there were 40 distinctly different models of the 85 horse Force - all with different parts (to an extent great enough that they got a different model number).

Why? Force was originally Chrysler Outboard. Bayliner bought them out when they went bankrupt, gave them to their US Marine division and basically continued to build Chrysler outboards under the new name "Force".

A couple years after that, Brunswick bought out
Bayliner and gave the Force line to Merc (who they also owned).

Merc continued to produce the Force line for about 10 more years. Initially the motors were still pretty much a Chrysler, but as they started running out of parts discontinued Merc stock started to get used as well.

In the last few years of production it was a case of "make it fit" and if it worked they produced that model until they ran out of parts - then grabbed something else off the shelf. If that worked then out came a "different model" - so in 1988 that happened 40 times with the 85 horse.

Because of that you need to find your model number and service exactly to that model because even if "joe next door" has the same model year 85 horse Force, it may look nothing like yours when you take off the hood....

As to repairing the floor. Normally you will remove all the rotted/destroyed fiberglass and plywood and replace with similar materials. If you have a West Marine close by, stop in and pick up a little booklet produced by West System. It's called "Fieberglass Boat Repair and Maintenance" (sells for about 5 bucks I think - or check out the West System website - nothing to do with West Marine, West System wrote the bible on epoxy/fiberglass).

It's about 80 pages and shows you all what is involved in doing the repair. From that you can decide if you want to undertake the project in that manner.

Alternately, the floor can be replaced with a product such as "Starboard" (similar products sold under serveral names) which is a type of plastic used extensively in the marine industry today. It is pretty much used the same way as plywood (and cuts/machines the same as wood) except you don't need to epoxy or fiberglass the product which doesn't rot and needs no further protection when used right off the shelf.

Starboard however, can not be glued in place (nothing sticks to it worth a damn) so mechanical fasteners are a must (usually high grade stainless) and it can not be painted, so you are stuck with the minimal colour selection available.

And in and of itself because of the way it must be fastened it is not a great structural material, so you need extensive "more traditional" framework in any area that needs the strength to ensure the structural integrity of the boat (on the average boat that would be the athwartship supports (from one side to the other on the hull upon which the floor or "sole" sits) which keep the hull from twisting and flexing

In the end, both methods cost about the same (depending on supply sources local to you).

The Starboard may be somewhat less labour intensive (since framing must be done for both methods) but the epoxy/fiberglass/plywood method will give you a more original look - so it's kinda a matter of personal taste.

I have used both (aside from working on outboards and doing rigging I build wooden boats, and do repairs to a lesser extent on fiberglass as well)and which product to use is always on a case by case basis...."