BF 225 battery and engine alarms

New Year new problems. I have 2005 BF225s about 800 hours.

Problem 1.
If my port motor is running alone all is well.
If port and starboard motors are both at idle all is well
If port is idle and starboard is any faster then idle battery alarm goes off on port motor.
If beyond idle on both motors no alarm.
I have a 4 way perko Switch for each motor going to 2 batteries. There is also a ACR between the 2 batteries. I haven't tried disconnection the ACR yet but I suspect it will stop the alarm.
I did try swapping the batteries but same issue.
Im getting 14v off each motor.
Thoughts?


Problem 2. Port motor again
at idle randomly the port motor engine alarm will go off. Some times in 5 minutes. Some times in 20. Sometimes over a hour. Also sometimes just above idle like 1000rpms.
I slow troll a lot at 2.0mph and this is when I get the alarm.
If I turn off and back on alarm is gone.
Motor runs great. Starts right up and sounds good.
Sometimes coming off plane to idle motor will die out.
Thinking maybe a O2 Sensor. I havent gone through procedure to get fault code.

Background.
Over winter I replaced high and lower pressure fuel filters.
New thermostats
fuel water seperator
spark plugs (NGK)
Mid last season replaced primer bulbs with BRP ones. Bulbs stay firm.

I have the 4 light keys witch. I think its green good, Temp, Engine, Battery.

Any ideas. I was going to buy a O2 sensor anyways because its going to fail at some point. Boat is a charter boat so downtime is a issue and so is random loud alarms. Any help is much appreciated.
Previous owner used and abused the motors. I got it at 500 hours.

Problem 1 - what lights are on and off when the alarm sounds? If generator light is coming on, then, yes, bypass the ACR. Eliminate problems with your battery switch by bypassing that, too.

Problem 2 - what lights are on and off when the alarm sounds? Can you test fuel pressure? It should be between 42 and 49 psi.

In any case pull codes and let us know what you find.

chawk_man said:

Problem 1 - what lights are on and off when the alarm sounds? If generator light is coming on, then, yes, bypass the ACR. Eliminate problems with your battery switch by bypassing that, too.

Problem 2 - what lights are on and off when the alarm sounds? Can you test fuel pressure? It should be between 42 and 49 psi.

In any case pull codes and let us know what you find.

Click to expand...

1) the green light and the battery light are on will alarm. Im gonna try to isolate the battery by disconnecting the ACR. Im pretty sure this will fix it but leaves me with a charging issue for my house battery. The house will not charge with out the ACR connected and I run for hours on a single motor. when slow trolling. Every 6 hour trip I switch which motor im running on.

2) Green light and engine light are on with alarm. I dont have a way to check fuel pressure. Could it be water is coming up exhaust? I read this is a problem and my motors are pretty low in the water on a armstrong bracket.

Check all your positive and ground connections. A loose connection could be the simple culprit here.

Went to the boat today and here is what I found.

4) Both motors had the error code 1. I think thats O2? The starboard motor hasnt been giving me trouble. I cleared the codes and after 10 minutes of idle the port motor engine alarm went off. Turned off and it started right up again. Turned off and checked the code and code 1 again.

5) Back to battery problem. When both motors are running im showing high 14v. When the battery alarm goes off still same voltage. With port motor battery alarm going off I turn off starboard motor and battery voltage drops to about 13v for a second then back to high 14v. I disconnected ACR to isolate the port motor and battery and no issues. Its only when ACR is combining motors. I have another ACR so maybe try that. Didnt put a meter on it yet to dig in further.

6) New or maybe related issue. When I changed the thermostat I changed 1 thermostat in each motor on starboard side of motor. Did it in the dark and when I ordered off the parts diagram looked like there was only one. Looking at it again there are 2. What caught my attention is on both motors starboard side of the motor where I replaced thermostat was hot. If I had to put a number on it maybe 120 degrees. Port side was maybe 70? Lake temp is 46.
Question: if one side is cold and other is hot does that effect the O2 sensors. I ordered 2 more thermostats so it will work correctly. Woops.

7) For the o2 sensors. Is there a way to determine if a sensor is bad? Check Resistance or something? I ordered 2 at $175 each thinking there were only 1 sensor per motor but since there are 2 per motor I don't want to spend another $350 if mine are good. Sounds like they go bad often so I dont mind having a spare on hand.

The temperature on the port cylinders is way too low. The cylinders are not firing correctly and the O2 sensor detects that there is an issue with the combustion. It is possible that the sensor may have been damaged but I would first change the thermostat, clear the codes and run the engines. It is very possible that once the engine gets to temperature and the plugs clean off, that you may fix the O2 sensor issue.

Yes, it could be water in the cylinders, etc, but I recommend going for the obvious fix first.

As for the charging issue. I am confused on your switching and battery setup. You said you have two switches and two batteries....or do you have a total of three batteries, one of which is the house battery?

Honda recommends one battery per engine. If two engines are trying to charge the same battery, it is difficult for the regulator to determine the charge of the battery.

If you have are running two motors to the same battery plus the house battery, then check the wiring diagram in the attached link for that exact application. https://www.bluesea.com/resources/170/Battery_Management_Wiring_Schematics_for_Typical_Applications

As was pointed out earlier.....check for good tight and clean connections and good grounds.

Also, check the batteries to be sure that they are all good. One bad battery can screw up a charging routine.

Mike

Mega Dittos on everything Hondadude said.

There is only one HO2 sensor on the BF 225. Are you sure your not looking at the overheat sensors on the top of each manifold?

HondaDude sorry. yes I have 3 batteries. 2 starting and a house.
Each motor goes to a perko 4 way switch. The switch lets me choose what starting battery to use for each motor. Each motor is set to its own battery. Port to 1. Starboard to 2 but I can switch if I have issues.

The way my house is setup is all my accessories goes directly to the house. I do not have a switch to move my house to a starting battery.
To charge accross the batteries I have 2 ACR's. 1 ACR between battery 1 and house. another ACR between battery 2 and house. This allows me to charge all 3 of a single motor and also I have a onboard charger hooked to my house that also charges all 3 when voltage is high enough.

All Batteries were new last year. I did try to switch the batteries for each motor but problem did not follow the batteries and stayed with port motor. To get things working I disconnected the ACR between battery 1 that I am using for the port motor and problem seems to have gone away. Problem now is I troll for several hours a trip on a single motor so I cant charge the house if I am running on port motor. I guess a Isolator would fix it if need be but it worked fine all last year. I did put in a aftermarket alternator toward the end of last year but worked fine for rest of the year.

I need to get a meter on the batteries to see what voltage I am dealing with. I forgot the meter when going to the boat yesterday.

chawk_man said:

Mega Dittos on everything Hondadude said.

There is only one HO2 sensor on the BF 225. Are you sure your not looking at the overheat sensors on the top of each manifold?

Click to expand...

Yup. was thinking the overheat sensors where the O2 sensors. The O2 sensors come today. I think im just going to replace them. I have put 300 hours on the motors and not sure what the original owner did but by the looks of the motors he didn't do a lot.

Roger that. Be sure to keep the old HO2 sensors. I have over 2100 hours on my 2007 BF 225 and still has the original HO2 sensor.

If you had room you could install a second house battery and then each motor would have an engine battery and a house battery linked by it's own ACR. That would simplify things.

metal-chicken said:

If you had room you could install a second house battery and then each motor would have an engine battery and a house battery linked by it's own ACR. That would simplify things.

Click to expand...

The problem that I have is I run fishing charters. The boat runs 2 6 hour trips a day. We slow troll for 5 of the 6 hours using radar, fish finder, stereo, downriggers, washdown pump. Its a lot that can run down a battery and having to switch what battery to use is kind of a pain and one more thing to remember. Plus the battery switches are down in the bilge. I switch motors every trip to keep the hours the same. If I cant figure it out I will probably just put in a isolator and 3 bank battery charger. Would lose some voltage but would work.

Could it be a bad ACR? Have you tried switching the ACR's and see if the problem follows the ACR?

Be sure to double check the wiring as indicated on the Blue Sea link above. Pick the 3 battery 2 engine diagram and make sure you have it wired like that. It certainly looks like what you are doing....can be done.

Since it has worked in the past and if no wiring has been changed, there are only about three things that it could be 1. The alternator 2. One of the batteries or 3. The ACR

Checking to see what voltages you are getting makes a lot of sense. Your new alternator may have lost a diode and is charging at a lower than normal rate. The ACR could have some sort of internal short to ground.

Mike

Still havent dug into the battery issue. For now I just run with the ACR disconnected.

I put in the new thermostats so now I have 2 new thermostats in each motor. Both sides of the motor get warm now

Also replaced the o2 sensor on each motor but port motor is still getting engine alarm. seems to all ways happen 5-10 minutes after I start it up and idles for a while but then went hours at about idle without it happening. Also motor still has a tendancy to stall when coming down to idle form high speeds even if I do it slow. Not every time but at least half the time.

All the thermostats were in bad shape but the one was REALLY bad.

Wow!
Good job you took a look at those!!

How come you haven't pulled codes on that port engine? That would more closely identify the problem. It's very simple to do and only takes a paperclip, or the ubiquitous SCS service connector, which you can buy from any Honda small engine or marine shop, or order online - part number 070PZ-ZY30100 - under $20.00 on boats.net.

If you are not familiar with the procedure, send an e-mail to me at [email protected] and I will return a write up of the procedure and a PDF file that explains what the codes mean. It would be best to clear the codes first, then wait for the alarm to sound, then pull the codes again. You can actually pull the codes while you are on the water if you can get the hood off the engine.

I did clear the codes and am getting Code 1 after the alarm goes off. Thats what lead me to do the o2 sensor. After the new o2 sensor was installed i got code 1 again.

Fuel pressure out of spec will throw a code "1" as will a misfiring plug or failing coil. Since you changed the plugs over the winter and the coils on these engines seem to seldom fail, I would suspect fuel pressure, which can be caused by a blocked fuel filter or screen. Best to measure fuel pressure at the fuel pressure relief bolt that sits on top of the cover to the HP fuel filter.

Besides the high and low fuel filters which you changed over the winter, there are four other fuel filters and screens on that engine.

• Fuel Pump Filter 16911-759-003 (over top of VST)

• Suspension strainer 16915-ZW5-000 (over top of fuel pump filter) See items 5 & 6 at http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2005/BF200A5 XCA/PIPING/parts.html

• Fuel Pump Insulator 16718-ZY6-013 (inside the fuel pump housing). See item 29 at http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...04/BF225A4 XA/VAPOR SEPARATOR ASSY/parts.html

• Fuel filter mesh 16614-P5G-003 (on fuel rail). See item 4 at http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...er/BF225AK0 XCA/FUEL PIPE INJECTOR/parts.html

chawk_man said:

Fuel pressure out of spec will throw a code "1" as will a misfiring plug or failing coil. Since you changed the plugs over the winter and the coils on these engines seem to seldom fail, I would suspect fuel pressure, which can be caused by a blocked fuel filter or screen. Best to measure fuel pressure at the fuel pressure relief bolt that sits on top of the cover to the HP fuel filter.

Besides the high and low fuel filters which you changed over the winter, there are four other fuel filters and screens on that engine.

• Fuel Pump Filter 16911-759-003 (over top of VST)

• Suspension strainer 16915-ZW5-000 (over top of fuel pump filter) See items 5 & 6 at http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2005/BF200A5 XCA/PIPING/parts.html

• Fuel Pump Insulator 16718-ZY6-013 (inside the fuel pump housing). See item 29 at http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...04/BF225A4 XA/VAPOR SEPARATOR ASSY/parts.html

• Fuel filter mesh 16614-P5G-003 (on fuel rail). See item 4 at http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...er/BF225AK0 XCA/FUEL PIPE INJECTOR/parts.html

Click to expand...

Thats a lot of info. Thank you. I will check the manual for testing fuel pressure next.

Well I havent had time to check out high pressure screens and filter but it seems the problem has worked it self out. I have probably run 150 to 200 gallons of fuel through the motors and it no longer happens. Also coming down off plane they don't die out either. Still have the battery problem but new alternator came yesterday and hope to get it installed this week. Last tank of fuel I did run a heavy dose of seafoam to the tank maybe to clear out the system. I guess its possible it was caused by old fuel from the winter but I did put stabil in it.

Next task is the valve cover is leaking so figure I would pull it all apart and adjust the valves while I am at it. Was going to try to have a local shop do it but they are 4 to 6 weeks out and only want to offer me a 2 week window. The boat doesnt make money when its not in the water so I will need to tackle myself. Been looking online and might buy another motor to have a spare.