I'd like to know more about crankshaft thrust bearings.

To test for thrust bearing wear, gently pry under the crank pulley & compare with the specifications.
Here's a link to another thread with more info

http://www.marineengine.com/boat-fo...hrust-washer-failure&highlight=thrust+bearing

Bob

"Early model Honda V6's did not have a thrust bearing issue." This is from the linked thread. That was a sigh of relief.

But further research on other archives show contradictions. Honda's SB referred to serial #1600-1800. My motors are 1200, so no problem there. Most of the info I've dug up indicates this crankshaft bearing issue cropped up between 2009-2011. Still ok. But then I came across a thread or two that indicated the problem might go back to the beginning, at least in isolated cases.

I feel like I'm playing russian roulette, because as soon as I take those measurements, I'll know if I've inherited lemons or not. If so, it's a new short block, or two!!

So if this is a widespread problem on certain vintage motors, then the CC, which uses many of these, must have a history of failures. Right? Why don't we hear about that?

Hi......a previous thread mentioned a seemingly contradictory statement. Can anyone clarify, as I'm going to check my bearings today.

The first sentence suggests no play whatsoever. The second suggests using a feeler gauge for a max 0.14.

"If you see or feel vertical lift or hear a clunk then the crankshaft thrust bearing has failed....... Max crankshaft end play is 0.14."

Are you sure of 0.14" or is it 0.014" here ?

This is the thread that number came from. But I'm going to call Honda to make sure.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/401446-problems-late-honda-225s.html

.014 is more like it and they are thrust bushings from what I am seeing. .14 is over 1/8 inch way too much end play on the crank.

Update......Honda confirmed a max 0.018. So I called the closest dealer/service center to get info on how to measure. I was told to use a dial indicator. But after hearing the motors were 04's he said I'd probably be wasting my time. In 16 years he had only seen this issue on '09-'10 models.

He had some interesting things to say, but keep in mind he's a Honda dealer and has a vested interest, so his info may or may not be biased. He does have a good reputation around here.

He said there were only 100 or so motors nationwide with this problem. But many of those owners end up on the web with their stories, making it sound like it's a plague. The likelihood of this problem on early engines was next to zero.

He went on to tell me how important it was to inspect and/or change the mid-shaft bearing every 300 hrs. This is only an issue when not addressed on a schedule. I'll be doing that shortly.

He said that since I didn't know what oil was run in these motors for the previous 850 hrs, I was limited to synthetic. His reason was......if synthetic was run before, then it's a bad idea to go back to mineral-based. That's good for me, because I use Mobil 1 in everything. For these motors I'm using 10-40, which he though was an excellent choice.

Other than that he mentioned O2 sensors, exhaust tubes, thermostats, etc. And keep everything sprayed down with Corrosion X or something similar. The early Hondas had many bolts and fasteners that weren't marine-grade. I've already done that.

Hope this info is useful......

I'd say it's a whole lot of worry about nothing. Did you do the measurements yet? At 1200 hours I would expect very little to no wear. As long as the oil was of a decent quality and changed a few times. And yes....a dial indicator is the easiest and most accurate method of taking the measurement.

But...what if they ARE "uncomfortably" worn????

They are put there TO wear! They will, over time...wear!...

...So that the crankshaft and block don't.

When they are worn it's not the end of the world...or the engine as long as the wear is caught IN TIME.

They are sold as service items and you simply replace them....along with the main and rod bearings and piston rings while you're in there....because....they wear TOO!

Those HORROR stories USUALLY come from individuals that DON'T do good maintenance.....run the dog CRUD out of their equipment and THEN...as a problem starts to develop and they KNOW something ain't right.....they IGNORE it until is IS TOO LATE to do anything about it but B1TC4!

....THEN....well then.....it just never EVER seems to be their fault.

Thanks for some sanity. The internet has much good info, much bad info, and much hysteria. The trick is to decipher it.

You made clear what I hadn't yet determined, being that this is fixable without having to replace with a short block. I don't yet have the shop manual, so I've looked at online parts diagrams. What I'm seeing is a "thrust washer" (#10), and something that looks like a seal or bearing called E3. I can't find out what E3 is.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2004/BF225A4 XA/CRANKSHAFT PISTON/parts.html

So what you're saying is.....a repair can be made by replacing the "thrust washer" and maybe this E3. And if the motor has declined to the point where this repair is necessary, then replace main bearings, rings, etc.

If this is the case, then it's great relief. Threads on the Web seemed to suggest this had something to do with the crankshaft bearing/washer destroying the block, thereby requiring a new one.

There may have been a problem with a "batch run" of the bearings and that may have resulted in some problems with engines that came equipped with the faulty part. It happens to ALL manufacturers at some point. In this case I don't know what, if anything happened with Honda. I do know that if there was a problem, it was most likely well documented by Honda and a frame/serial number search on your outboards for their history might put your mind at rest.

Yes, the "thrust washer" is the part in question. The E3 reference is for a page number in the parts manual where you could find the details IE: part number and cost, concerning the upper crankshaft oil seal that is depicted.