06 9.9

I have a 2006 9.9 four stroke and havent had any issues with it thus far mechanically, but the other day im running full throttle and when the motor was at idle i bogged out. now it will not start. i checked the plugs cleaned the carburetor and changed the fuel line from the tank to the engine. i had it started for a few minutes earlier today but when i pushed the choke in it shut off.. not sure what to do with it at this point, any advice is helpful thanks!

When you say you cleaned the carburetor, what exactly do you mean? A quick spritz with a spray can or a complete tear down and re-seal?

Are you in the habit of draining (not just running the engine out of fuel) the carburetor bowl when the outboard is not in use? This requires opening the drain screw.

The answers to those questions should tell us how to proceed.

well, i pulled the carburetor out and i sprayed the inside with berrymans b12 i didnt change any seals or brak it down any further then i drained the carb, but i am not in the habit of draining the carb after use, i usually just let it run out of fuel.

Ok, Then here's my opinion of what's happening:

These carbs are VERY sensitive to scale deposits in both the bottom of the float chamber and in the accelerator pump passage and orifice. Not draining the carbs regularly leads to the sort of "runability" problem you are describing. I actually believe that running the engine until it quits may even exacerbate the problem since it doesn't remove the fuel from the bottom of the chamber but depletes enough liquid in there so that continuing evaporation and scale deposit is accelerated.

The only way to get your baby back on track is doing a thorough cleaning of the carb with QC (quality control) checks as you go. Since you already had it off once, it should be easy to take it off again and get it straightened out. I do suggest that you purchase a few critical parts before beginning but, sometimes, the task can be done reusing just about everything. Here are the parts I recommend having on hand:

Item # 1 gasket set..... X 1
Item # 19 gasket........ X 2
Item # 4 screw set.... X 1...This is the idle mix screw and can be easily broken during removal. If you are careful and don't break your old one, then you might not need this.

Refer to parts link illustration below.
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...6/BFP9.9D6 LRTA /CARBURETOR (AUTO)/parts.html

You may also find that your "jet set" (item #18) is cracked or has debris inside of it that is impossible to remove. In that case, you would want to replace it. You won't know until you get the carburetor apart and inspect with a magnifying glass. I replace them every time I do a carb just because but you may not want to spend the money. Your choice.

Notice that I used the example of an auto choke carb. If yours is a manual choke (pull start only) you will still need the same parts but you should order from the page that best describes your model. There are substantial savings in ordering from the boats.net site as opposed to going to your local dealer. If you want to proceed without replacement parts, ok but you may not get the best results.

There is also a carburetor repair manual for Honda outboards available from Helm Inc. I have never seen one but hondadude says they are quite good and I trust his opinion. If you just want to wing it with me to get it cleaned up, then that's ok too.

One more question: does your accelerator pump (item# 14) actuator pin move down and then back up when the throttle is moved from idle to wide open then back to idle? This pin is the one inserted through the little rubber bellows or "cap" (item #12) on the side of the carb.

answering your last question, the accelerator pump actuator pin does not move when the throttle is moved.. what does that mean?

That means that the accelerator piston is seized in it's bore and confirms my suspicion of there most likely being a blockage in the passages.

These accelerator pumps are, excuse the expression, useless as tits on a boar hog. They don't do much of a job of helping the carb get through "transition" from idle to high speed but they do reliably cause owners and mechanics headaches. I actually ran one with the piston removed and noticed only slight differences in the way the engine performed. That is why I don't replace them anymore. I just get them out and clean them up enough so that they don't stick again and put them back together. Why have someone spend money on something that doesn't work in the first place?

But, it does mean that your carb needs to be disassembled and properly cleaned to get your outboard to run correctly.

Your other option is to purchase a new carburetor and simply bolt it on. Look at it this way:

If you did the "Full Monty" parts purchase and cleaned it up using the parts I suggested, your bill would be around $50 to $60 including shipping and materials such as 2 or 3 cans carb cleaner.

If your carb has an auto choke, a new one is $148.86 plus shipping and tax (if applicable in your state) and gaskets

If your carb is a manual choke, a new one is $121.01 + gaskets at boats.net. Honda doesn't give you any extras like gaskets HO HO HO.

Think it over,
over.

ok, so as far as the parts you suggested i would still need to get those, and by cleaning it properly i should free the piston returning it to functioning properly? I totally understand what your saying cause if you hadnt asked that question i never would have realized that it wasnt moving as it should, cause now ive already spent money on a few other items just trying to trouble shoot the problem.

I just edited my last post but I think you saw the "1st" version. I gave you some other options to cleaning. Think it over. It is a real PITA but at the end, you will really know your carb.

Ok so, I decided to break down the carb. I unseized the piston and it is now puncturing properly and moving freely with the throttle, I ran it for a moment but was still not able to close the choke completely, it was late after 2am so I didn't want to wake my neighbors because the engine revs fairly high rpm with the choke out for some reason but I'm gonna give it a shot in the morning and see if I can't figure it out, if that sounds like I have another issue? I'm not sure since it is a manual choke I could purchase the new carb if that is the issue behind the problem..

I'm usually asleep at this time but I stayed up to watch the Perseid meteor shower. Spectacular!

Anyway, I don't think that just freeing up the pump piston is going to solve your problem. My guess is that the circuit that the pump feeds is clogged with debris and will need to be flushed.

When a carb gets to this stage, it is my experience that a complete cleaning of ALL circuits should be done for quick start, smooth idle and seamless power transition throughout the throttle range.

I highly doubt that you have anything seriously wrong with your choke. About the only thing that goes wrong with the manual choke is that the cable housing can break where it takes the sharp bend going into the body. Even then, it will still work normally until moisture gets in and causes it to get "sticky".

No, your problems are in the circuits themselves.

OK, so since i am pretty oblivious to all of this, what are the circuits?

Sorry about the delay. I have a medical emergency in my family. Up all night and then all day at the ER.

The circuits are just the drilled passageways inside the carburetor. One circuit, or pathway if you like, is the main that includes the jets. One is the idle and another is the accelerator. They are all interconnected in one way or the other and I like to say that the carb can't "breathe" right if any one of them is even partially clogged.

Not a problem, this is of no importance compared to family. I have deep cleaned the carb, now im playing the waiting game for new gaskets to arrive, hopefully this will resolve my issue. Another question, there is a screw on the top left that has and edge and a 0 on it, what is that..and should it be adjusted a certain way?

Not sure what you mean by "deep cleaned the carb" but there are certain checks you need to perform to verify that it will function properly when reinstalled. I'll tell you now that most guys that think that they "cleaned the carb" don't even come close the first, second, third and, well, you get the picture. If you don't do the checks, there is really no way of knowing and you will be putting it back and taking it off again and again trying to get your outboard to run right.

I don't have a carb in front of me at the moment so I'm not sure about the screw you are asking about. If it is on the same side of the carb as the accelerator pump and is at the top left, then it is, most likely, the idle mixture screw. They come with a little plastic, chrome plated "cap" with a little pointer on it that only allows it to sweep about 1/4 turn inside the little ridged depression that it sets in. That's why they call it a limiter. That's also why I said you should either be careful removing it or have a new one standing by as they are VERY easy to break. Does that sound like the screw you are talking about?

If you do not remove the idle screw, you will not get the idle passage clean. There is just no way without removing that screw. Don't try to remove the idle screw until I tell you how to go about it. You will break it for sure without some tips.

Before you put the thing back together, I want you to check the accelerator pump passage to make sure it is clear. You check that by locating the accelerator passage in the main body. You locate the passage by noting where carb cleaner sprays out of the carb BOWL when you pressurize the hole that the accelerator piston charges/pressurizes when it is depressed.

That exit is a hole located on the corner of the bowl closest to the accelerator pump. Do not confuse it with a screw hole that is nearby. That hole matches a corresponding hole in the carb main body.

If you look in the front of the carb throat, there is a little brass tube that juts out into the throat. When the accelerator passage in the main body is charged with a spray from the straw of a can of carb cleaner, a jet of fluid should shoot out of that brass tube toward the back of the carb.

If you prop the throttle plate to wide open (wedge a small screwdriver in the linkage) and spray that passage, the resultant stream out of that brass tube should SHOOT out the back of the carb about SIX (6) FEET or so. If not, the circuit is partially or completely plugged and the engine will never run right until it is cleaned.

If it is plugged or does not spray a very forceful and long stream, then you need to take the carb spray straw and carefully insert it into the back of the carb throat, past the throttle plate and place the tip directly over the tiny orifice on the end of that brass tube. I call this 'backflushing". Give it a well placed shot of fluid. then take the straw and go back and spray into the passage entrance. Go back and forth like this until you get some flow. It could take many, many tries depending on how bad the blockage is. If the passage is completely blocked, the spray will build up pressure in that passage and come rushing back out at you when you pull the straw away. So, be careful of your eyes. Same caution when you finally get the stream out of the tube. It is sort of natural to want to look at the orifice to see what comes out but, like I said, it can SHOOT out of there and hit you in the eyes. So point the carb throat away from your face and body. NOTE: I have had some really stubborn ones that were badly plugged but I've never had one I couldn't get cleaned...yet.

When you get that cleaned out then I'll tell you how to clean and check the MAIN passage. Ironically enough, that involves removing the idle adjustment screw!

Ok I am done with that part of the cleanins as explained, I'm ready to take out the idle screw

We need to be on the same page first.
You've located the idle screw as I described it? Was that the screw you said had an 0 on it?
Was the accelerator tube plugged? Or, did you get the stream to shoot out of the brass tube easily?
Do you have a soldering iron?
Can you locate and remove the plug that holds the jet set on? Refer to the parts blow up below and it is item #8
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...6/BF9.9D6 LHA /CARBURETOR (MANUAL)/parts.html

Yes that was the screw I was referring to. The accelerator tube did not seem to be plugged I was able to get the stream fairly easy. And yes I have a soldering iron, and I know the plug for the jet set

Ok, you can use the soldering iron to heat that little plastic cap and soften the glue that holds it to the screw head and pull it off gently. Remember, it's plastic so go easy with the heat and use some needle nose pliers to put upward pressure while you are heating it. When you get that off of the screw head, you will see the slot that you can use a pocket screwdriver to back it out. You will note that it will turn and turn and turn and not just come out. There is a small Oring under the head that acts like a soft "lock" and you will need to use another small screwdriver or a dental pick to pry up and lift it out while you are turning. This is where it is easy to break the head off of the screw so be careful. When it comes, it will bring the Oring and spring with it.

I am still interested in EXACTLY how much you had to spray into the accelerator passage to get that stream. If there was ANY blockage at all, you need to be aware that I just had a guy that cleaned his out and put it back together and the engine ran great for just a few minutes until some more junk came loose in that passage and blocked the brass tube again. He is currently taking it back off and cleaning again. It needs to be sprayed many times to make sure that doesn't happen to you. It has happened to me more than once.

Take that brass plug (item 8) out and the main nozzle, item 17 will fall off. Make a note of which way it goes on so that you get it back on correctly. The jet set tube can now be removed. You need to go in the front (choke end) of the carb with that little pocket screwdriver and find the little lip of that jet set tube that is pressed up against the top of the venturi (throat) passage. Put the tip of the screwdriver between the carb wall and that lip or ledge and give it a gentle twist. The jet set will pop right out. DO NOT PULL ON IT FROM THE BOTTOM WITH PLIERS. There should be a little Oring on the end of that jet set just above that lip. That is all that holds it in there and seals the passage until the main nozzle is back in place.

Forgot to mention that the plug that holds the main nozzle and jet set in can be a bear to get loose without using an impact driver. If you don't have one, then just a couple of sharp raps with ball peen hammer before you apply the screwdriver will usually make it easier.

The main nozzle never seems to get plugged or cause problems other than it can be installed upside down. The jet set however is a different story. You really need to look at it carefully and get it clean inside and out. They will sometimes crack vertically right up the tube and need to be replaced. They can trap very small "rocks" (for lack of a better term) that you can see but just can't get out. I usually just replace them anymore as they are such a headache.

With your throttle plate in the wide open position, look at the top of the carb throat. You will see three small holes. One of these can be seen when the throttle plate is closed and that one is the idle orifice. The other two are the main and transition circuits. First, find a way to plug the hole where the jet set goes in to the top of the carb throat. Then, with the carb spray straw, power some cleaner into the port where the idle screw came out and watch the idle orifice. You should get a somewhat restricted "burble" of cleaner coming out of the orifice. Then, take the straw and place it over the orifice and give it a couple of shots. The cleaner should come out of the idle screw hole. Do this a couple of times. Then, unplug the jet set hole and use your finger to plug the idle screw hole. stick the straw up into the jet set hole and watch for spray to come out of all three of the tiny orifices. Then place the straw over each orifice and see that spray comes out of the jet set hole. Keep your finger over the idle screw hole while doing this. Do it several times or until you see no improvement in spray volume coming through those passages. Then, go back and repeat the idle circuit procedure a couple of more times and then you will be done with the main carb body if you are ABSOLUTELY certain that the accelerator circuit is really and truly clean. I can't emphasize enough how important that circuit is to the proper operation of the carburetor.

With the main body passages flushed out, you need to go back to the bottom of the float chamber and, with either the carb spray, a piece of wire or both, ensure that the passages in the bottom of the bowl are clear. They can easily get packed with debris and, here again, I can't say enough how important it is that they are completely clean.

Once the carb bowl is clean then it is time to reassemble the carb. You MUST be VERY cautious when putting the jet set tube back in. Use a new oring even if the old one LOOKS new. Lube the oring with WD 40 or light oil before putting it on the tube. Take care not to over stretch it as you place it over the tube end and get it into it's slot.

That Oring is another trouble spot that can kill the performance of the carb if you booger it up. Gently push the jet set back up into it's hole in the carb throat until the oring sort of "pops" into place. Then, after giving the main jet a quick visual check (they never seem to be too dirty) reinstall the main nozzle and the plug that holds it all together.

Put a new Oring on the idle mixture screw and install the screw, spring and oring back into the cavity. Very GENTLY bottom the idle screw in it's seat and then back it out about 2 turns. Do not re glue the limiter cap at this time. Wait until you get the engine running and you are satisfied that you have the idle mixture adjustment right where you want it. I would wait until I had a chance to actually set it up and drive the boat before re installing the limiter cap. Some guys just leave them off but I like them in place to keep curious George from fiddling with the mix.

Now, you should be done and, I hope, a happy boater.

OK so the main jet that goes up through the carb throat should have an oring? and that is the jet that has the other tube over it and then a large screw at the top and smaller one on the side? cause there was never one on there. I have already purchased the kit for the o rings and main seal and also another idle mixture screw since i broke it, just like you said i would.

Yes, that jet, called the intermediate jet or "JET SET" should have come out with a small oring on the UPPER end.

Let's get on the same page with the nomenclature and UP and DOWN so we are communicating as we should. We don't need any mistakes at this point.

You say;... "that is the jet that has the other tube over it and then a large screw at the top and a smaller one on the side" That's ok and all but this is how it is properly oriented:

You have the carb upside down while you're working on it. So, simply switch top for bottom and bottom for top so I don't get confused.

Yes, that skinny tube or intermediate JET SET goes UP into the carburetor throat bore. Yes it has an Oring at the TOP. Yes the larger tube or MAIN NOZZLE slides UP and over that JET SET.

Then, yes a large screw or PLUG at the BOTTOM that holds those two in place and seals the end of the main dip tube.

And then, yes, a smaller screw or MAIN JET on the side of the main dip tube. This jet does NOT need to be disturbed but you MUST check it to make sure that the orifice is clear and unclogged. Don't probe inside this jet as it is relatively soft and you can accidentally change the orifice size which could effect the carb's mix ratio and make it run too rich. Just look at it and blow it out with some carb spray to make sure that it is clear.

I highly suspect that there HAD to be an Oring on the jet set or the engine would never have run at all. But, then, stranger things have happened. Make real sure that you use a bright light and look up and probe into the cavity where the JET SET inserts into the top of the carb throat. Make sure the old Oring is not still up there.

If the old Oring is left in there, it will never seal and you will probably crack the jet set when you tighten the screw at the BOTTOM. If you see it is up there, CAREFULLY remove it making sure that you don't scratch or gouge the metal with any tool you may be using.

When you are confident that the Oring is out, install a new one on the little lip at the TOP of the JET SET.
Here, again, you MUST be very careful not to damage that Oring while putting it on. I cannot emphazie enough how easy it is to "booger" up that Oring and then not have it seal after you are finished. Don't stretch it any more than necessary to get it over the end of the tube and into it's "BOSS".

After the Oring is installed on the JET SET, lube it up with WD-40 or light machine oil and very carefully insert it into the TOP of the carb throat. You do NOT want to roll the Oring as it goes into the passage. Aim it straight into the hole and give it a gentle push until it sort of "pops" into place. When the jet set is properly positioned in the main passage, it should hang there on it's own with the Oring holding it in place.

Now you can reinstall the MAIN NOZZLE over the JET SET and then install the PLUG at the BOTTOM of the MAIN JET dip tube to hold it all in place.

Sorry you had trouble with the idle screw but I do these a lot and I still break them myself. That's why I always have new ones laying around.

You should be just about ready to put her back together and fire it up. I hope it all goes well from here.

So i put the carb back in and its starting up easy, but it still wont idle with the choke pushed in all the way. AND it was pouring quite a bit of smoke at one point while i had it running and i was trying to adjust the idle screw.. everything is clean inside the carb now Im starting to wonder if i have another issue.

Bummer! Did you ever find an Oring in the main passage jet seat? I guess we go back to basics. Does the primer bulb stay hard or get squishy? Are you using FRESH fuel?

I went back and read your original complaint and it would not start at all so we've made some headway. You never mentioned the fuel filter and I forgot to ask. Is it clean?

Have you had a chance to throttle it up and see if it has any power? Have you attempted to adjust the idle mixture screw to try and richen it up at idle? If you put the screw in too tight, then it would starve for fuel. Try backing that out a turn or even 2 to see if it improves. Is your "dock idle" screw turned in enough to keep the engine idling? That"s the screw on the carb's linkage on the opposite side from the idle mix screw. Check some of those things and get back to me.

If it's not any of that, then it can get more complicated.

Here are the possibilities as I see them.

You could have a fuel flow problem at idle. Take the fuel line off at the carb and crank the engine with the pull start. See if a good amount of gas comes out. These don't take much to keep them idling but if it doesn't have a real decent "dribble" immediately when you start pulling then it could have a weak pump.

You could be sucking a little air through the fuel line. To find out, you could substitute a longer hose from the fuel pump outlet and submerge it into a clear container with a small amount of gas in the bottom. When you turn the engine over, there should be no bubbles coming out of the hose.

Here are some others:

It could have an intake leak. We could add artificial fuel around the carb and intake manifold and watch for any increase in rpms.

It could have jumped time. We could verify the timing is still correct.

It could need to have the valves adjusted. We could check valve clearances.

I think it may have just been an issue with the idle screw, i have it running great now, found the idle with about 3 turns out from tight. still going to run some b12 additive in my fuel for a while, but i cant thank you enough for your help. Saved me a bunch of money with your knowledge. Thanks again

YIPPIE!... MAN!... That feels good!

I was getting worried I'd sent you down the wrong road. Glad to hear you are a happy Honda owner once again.

Thank YOU for stickin' with me, reading the long posts and following through. YOU saved yourself the bunch of money by "manin' up" and GITIN' 'ER DONE!

Now, don't forget to DRAIN that carb when puttin' her to bed.