Honda 40 4 stroke choke control issues

Honda 40 4 stroke choke control issues
Hi I am new to the forum,
THE STORY
I have a honda 40hp 4 stroke last year I took it out of storage it had been in storage for 4 years replaced the lower unit seals then had carb problems took it to the boat shop they had it for 2 months and were unable to fix it they re replaced the lower unit seals they said I did not put them in right, not sure if i didn't as I have no experience working on marine engines. Took it to another boat shop as the first shop "couldn't get the gaskets" by this time it was November not good boating weather in Kansas. The second boat shop was able to get the fuel system back together with what appeared to be the right gaskets.
This summer I got the boat out again it would not start seafoamed it it still would not come off of the choke to idle called boat shop #2 they stated that I had not properly set the fuel system for storage and I needed to clean the carbs they were not interested in helping me and will not return my calls.
I took off the cabs myself kept them in order and was lucky to not damage the gaskets I noticed that there was a lot of gasket material on the garbs that was not from the new gaskets so I cleaned that off ran carb cleaner though every orifice I could find and made sure air could get through there was weird green debris in the lower carbs in the bowls and in the jets cleaned that off. Used spray carb cleaner to flush the tube behind the carbs it is a metal tube that connects to all the carbs. Like I said I cleaned any hole that I could see.
Put it all back together now the boat idles and will even go in to gear.
I told you all of the story just in case this problem is something simple that I did.
END --THE STORY
The motor dies between 2200 rpm and 3500 rpm will run poorly at > 3500 rpm. Took off the cover and manually controlled the butterflies that are connected to the choke ran like a champ when I did that. Assumed that I maybe had a bad solenoid unhooked it and used a 9 v battery to see if it worked It did. So now I am stumped at what to do next since it seems that it is what ever controls the solenoid that is not working and that may be due to something I did or something else. Hope someone can help me. My dad who owns the boat wants to just buy a 115 HP "any thing but a damn Honda" outboard unit and we will sell the Honda so I need to get it fixed eiter way I live in Kansas and the nearest Honda Service is 80 Mi away in Russel Ks the next best is OKC. I am sure I could fix ti with all of your help.
Sorry so long.

I see no one else has replied yet so just let me say WELCOME ABOARD the forum Bill. I hope you can get some relief here. It sounds to me that "Honda Service" is much farther away than 80 miles for you. It might as well be 1,000,000 for all the help you've gotten so far. I'll bet you paid those creeps a pretty penny too. There are a couple of real pros here that may be able to help. I will offer some suggestions if I think they are relevant but I am NOT the expert here.

If you can add the year, model number and frame number for your outboard, that might help. We'll need this info to determine how to proceed. It sounds like you have a pre '04 since you seem to be describing a mechanical choke.

Don't give up on the Honda just yet! They make great outboards. But, sometimes, it's hard to get good help from some of these shops out there. If they don't care about what they do or the quality of service they show their customers, then you are stuck with helping yourself. Which, by the way, doesn't sound like anything YOU are particularly afraid of.

Do you have a shop manual? If not, you might consider getting one from Helm Inc. and NO OTHER! They are more expensive than the rest but are well worth it with the info they provide. The others are pretty much useless so don't waste your money on any of those. The manual will more than pay for itself if you are doing your own work and is a good feature for "sweetening the pot" when you want to sell.

So hang in there and we'll see if the "boys" can get you straightened out and on the water.

So, it sounds like the choke is 'stuck" on. Look at the parts page in the link below and make sure that the plunger (item #7) is free to move inside the solenoid housing (item #6). If so and all the linkages on the carburetors move freely, then you may be right about whatever controls the solenoid being the problem.

If this is a remote control, then you may have a bad switch. I believe these work when you push forward on the key to power the solenoid at start up. Is that correct? If so, you may have power going to the solenoid at all times due to a bad switch in the console. Use a voltmeter and probe the connector for power while the ignition is in the run position.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2003/BF40A3 LRA /MUFFLER COVER/parts.html

Most likely, the carbs were put on, the choke levers #'s 25, 26 etc at the bottom of the carb muffler plate #37 http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard%20Engine/2003/BF25A3%20LRSA%20/CARBURETOR/parts.html

are most likely rotated so that the choke solinoid will not operate properly. I can not remember if there is enough clearance to correct it without taking the muffler plate off or at least loosing the intake manifold.

Mike

I can move the choke linkage manually and the engine will operate properly going down the lake (had my dad at the helm and I took of the cover to move the butterfly's) the linkage seems to be on correctly. I can get the solenoid plunger to operate with a 9v battery. It doesn't seem to automatically control the solenoid so I am wondering if it is something that controls the signal to the solenoid?

I am somewhat confused on this one. If you have to operate the choke to make the motor run good, then the carbs are not cleaned. You have to completely disassemble and clean all passages.

If you are going to do it yourself, I highly recommend the Honda Carburator Manual from helminc.com. http://www.helminc.com/helm/result.asp?Style=helm

It has great pictures and shows you exactly what to do.

Mike

I was under the impression that the choke was stuck "ON". Which is it Bill? Are the butterflies always open or always closed or partially closed?

jgmo,
I am not really sure if they are open all the time or closed all the time they are in the default state I assume that is OPEN??? they are spring loaded
Maybe hondadude is right and I did not get them completely clean although I took apart everything that looked like it would come apart and used carb and choke cleaner in all the holes that I could find. I would have trouble justifying the purchase of a book especially if we get a new motor. It idles fine and is able to go full throttle (badly unless I manually control the linkage) it is in just the mid range that the motor dies from about 2500 RPM to about 3500 RPM again unless I manually control the linkage.

It just seems strange that I do not see any activity from that solenoid when moving the throttle seems like it should do something that is what lead me to think it was something that sends a signal to it, or something that causes a signal to be sent to the solenoid.

Yeah, they should default all the way open. They should only close when you send a command for choke. I don't know this outboard so I can't tell you exactly how but it is many times a switch within the ignition switch. You push the key forward and hold it in while cranking when the engine is cold. Does that sound familiar at all? Or, there is a particular throttle setting (usually "firewalled") that will activate the choke on some controls. Maybe yours is like that? My Merc has a separate button I have to hold but it is pretty old.

Here's the deal: If they are all the way open and the engine is stalling out and then, when you "manipulate" them closed and the engine "runs like a champ" then hondadude is correct. You did not get the carbs as clean as you should. Most guys don't get them clean enough the first try. There are some "secrets" that you may need some help with to get them completely cleaned.

I thought they were stuck partially closed and when you opened them, the engine ran great. If that were the case, then it would seem that the carbs are ok and you just have a choke problem.

The manual isn't expensive, it's priceless if you're going to do your own work. But, if you're giving up on it then, yeah, why spend more money on it?

Ditto to what jgmo said.

The choke operates by either pushing the key switch in (if the key is in a key switch panel on the dash) or if you have a key switch in the box with the shifter, raising the throttle only lever all the way up to the shift handle. There is going to be resistance as you get close to the handle, just push it a little farther.

Some of the very old installations, have a key switch panel that is rectangular and sits vertically....it has a separate toggle switch just below the key switch.

Mike

Of course the key switch has to be on when you do this.

Hate to state the obvoius but this motor also has a manual choke control. If the manual choke knob is pulled out the choke will be on and stay on no matter what you do with the key or fast idle control.

I am grateful to all of you that have replied Thank You
There is a lever that controls the choke mechanically at the helm if it is on the throttle control is locked
There is also a manual plunger style choke on the motor itself it also controls the choke mechanically
There is the solenoid that is electrical and can also control the choke.

I am really afraid to take these carbs back off since it took the shop 3 months to get gaskets and that may be part of this issue since as I understand air+fuel+spark since it seems to require more choke to run right I wonder if I have air leaks on the gaskets maybe they are not even the right gaskets. I will have to put some pictures up and the data on the engine so you can all know what type it is.

Highly unlikely that it is a gasket leak. Air leaks are usually more of a problem at idle, as the throttle is opened more volume comes through the throat and the gasket leak becomes a smaller and smaller percentage of the total airflow.

I have the same motor and having cleaned the carbs myself several times I'm >90% sure it a clogged carb. Just squirting the things you see will not work on these carbs. There are little orfices all over the place, like the two small holes in the barrel well below the throttle plates.

I would recommend getting a cheap ultrasonic jewelry cleaner and fill it with carb cleaner. After that get the manual referenced above and verify that each passage is open by squirting carb or brake cleaner through each one.

Mdoherty,
I guess I will be cleaning the carbs this weekend.

Make sure you do a search on this site for carb cleaning posts. Lots of good information on looking for cracks in the brass metering tube etc.