Starting Honda Marine BF6B

Hello, My snappie 21 has a Honda Marine BF6B 4-stroke engine in a Well, ie hard to get out and so stuck out on the tide away from help. The previous owner said he had problems with it and it needed a service, we had a full (and expensive) service on it while still on land. Come launch date it would not start, fortunately the previous owner had arranged a tow(mm..) to the moorings. After advice I have sprayed Engine Start (have just read this is terrible stuff) into the air filter nozzle at the side and having tried over many hours pulling that cord it has started 3 times, once enough for a pootle about, a second occasion after so many tries the tide was on its way out so we had to switch it off and go home, the third time it would only start briefly then died and wouldn't budge again.
The kind person who had said about the Engine Start had checked fuel was getting through, also is a spark from spark plugs. Fuel has fresh added (sometimes I poured some out) every couple of weeks so its not stale. Also I spray everywhere with WD40.
TKP said something about Carb Cleaner, I should squirt some in tube at back and pull cord for half an hour. but there appear to be several tubes at the back. (This gentleman is off successfully sailing, or sees me coming, anyhow I have not seen him again to ask)
Does anyone have any advice about this carb cleaner, any other advice, (apart from chuck it in the sea and get sails up, that may be next) and someone said there is something you can add to the fuel to clean the carbs? I suppose this is all useful, I've already learnt more than I ever wanted to know about the engine.
Any advice welcome,
Jan

Pull the carbs off, take them home, soak overnight, clean thoroughly, every nook and cranny. Take pictures so you know how it goes together again. Also get new spark plugs. You want to avoid starter fluid because theres no lubricant, but you caN put premix in a spray bottle.

You have a dirty carburetor. PLEASE do not use starting fluid any more as it will only cause you grief. And, PLEASE be careful spraying anything, especially gasoline, out of a squirt bottle as an intake backfire could cause a fire and or injury.

The carburetor needs to be removed, dismantled and completely cleaned. This is not as hard as it might sound but not as easy as just "soaking" it in a "solution". Most harsh cleaning solutions sold for soaking carburetor parts will destroy yours. It either has to be done in a "sonic" cleaner or by hand.

Removing the carburetor in a sailboat outboard well is not impossible but I would not want to do it. One dropped part could really cost you. The outboard should be removed and taken ashore to make repairs and then be thoroughly tested prior to the laborious job of putting it back on the boat. Sorry, there is no easy way out.

Thank you so much emac and jgmo, for your very quick replies, to what may be a very obvious problem to many people. Many vary useful points raised which I will take on board. Your replies of course raise more questions, eg what is pre-mix (jgmo says don't spray it), and how to get this engine ashore. And is the carburetor the knobbly bit at the back. Most importantly, is it worth it, will the problem not recur, is it easily prevented. Your thoughts on this last particularly welcome.

Pre mix would be used in a 2 stroke motor and your Honda is not in that category.---Next question is what year is the motor and where was it marketed ( your location ) ----Can not find that model # in my rescources.---------------Report on how strong the spark is. As in how big a gap can it jump.----If you are not pulling it over fast enuff it simply will not start either.--------Are you using the choke properly ?-Checked for water in your fuel supply ?-How old is the fuel ??

Hi Snappie,
Yes, racerone is right, premix is a reference to oil and gasoline mixed for a 2 stroke. Honda doesn't make a 2 stroke. I can't find a 6 hp engine listing either so perhaps if you could enlighten us on year model and frame number (although, I doubt that you can see the frame number with it being in that well) that might help.

Yes, DO NOT spray gasoline on the boat! DANGER!

Your question about the carburetor is very revealing about how much you still need to learn about the outboard. They are typically "knobbly" looking indeed. The best way to identify one is to move the throttle from idle to fast and observe what is moving under the hood. You will see the throttle linkage or cable move an arm or a quadrant looking device in a semi-circular or arcing motion. That arm or quadrant is attached to the carburetor as a whole.

Yes, it is well worth having it repaired or, even replaced. A new one for a small outboard is not all that expensive and, sometimes, the best way to go to solve your type of problem when a qualified mechanic is just not available to perform a thorough and reliable cleaning. A person of very limited mechanical ability (not necessarily you) can usually remove the old one and bolt on the fresh one without too much difficulty.

Yes, it is very easy to keep this from becoming a problem again. Just keep the carburetor drained if you are not going to start the outboard for several days. It is the minerals in the water that is in ALL LIQUID FUELS that cause these problems. If you drain (not just run "dry") the carburetor, you remove any water in the float chamber that can deposit minerals in there.

racerone has a good point about the sparking system but I was assuming it is working as you first stated that you had the engine running on more than one occasion. Typically when the spark system goes awry, the engine will never start. However, it doesn't hurts to verify that the plugs are in good shape and are sparking.

The spark on these small outboards is EXTREMELY hard to see in daylight and I find it easier to use a timing light to verify the system is working. I'm sure you don't have or know how to use one of those so, draping a blanket or sail over your head and the outboard as a "hoody" to create darkness while observing for spark is the next best thing.

Gotta go. Ask all the questions your heart desires.

Thanks racemo and again to jgmo, how patient you are. Such useful info!
The spark plugs were new at the service prior to launch, and the person who came to look saw sparks. I will remember the hoody tip. I have put new fuel in, on the second occasion it started only after I had added fresh fuel to the three week old and older mix (to free up the spare tank to take home) so that made me wonder- the same trick didn't work again. As to the choke, I'm not sure, I have tried it every which way
Yes you're right, I don't know too much about engines! I can start the garden strimmer at home.
I will locate the carburetor as you describe jgmo next time I am aboard, and see if I can reach it to get it off. (tips welcome!) If I try I will do it when the tide is out with a rug on the sand in case I drop anything. That would be easier to take to the Marine Engine Service man than the whole engine, or as you suggest get a new one. I would be tempted to clean it myself, learning curve and all that, but I have limited time (don't we all). emac suggested taking photos- sounds a brill idea.
The engine is a Honda BF6B Frame No BALS 2002932 I was tempted to add an "Up" in the middle. Its dated 2005. I think its 9HP
Will the new/cleaned carb be easy to drain?
I do feel more optimistic now, many thanks

OOOOOOOOOOOH, it's a 9hp! Well, that certainly explains why you are reluctant to pull it out of the well! Those suckers are HEAVY!

Your plan of taking it off at low tide with a rug underneath is a good one. But, based on what you've already written I am a bit concerned about any mechanical aptitude you may possess. There a couple of small items that you could break if you "buffaloed" it during the procedure that would necessitate replacing the carburetor as a whole.

But, you are a sailor and I know that you MUST deal with mechanics all the time just to rig and hoist a jib and a main so, if you're willing to give it a go, I would monitor your progress and questions and try to walk you through it.

Let's do some more identification stuff first. look at the link below and see if this looks like your engine cover.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2006/BF9.9D6 LHA /ENGINE COVER/parts.html

If so, then this is what your carburetor should look like:

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...6/BF9.9D6 LHA /CARBURETOR (MANUAL)/parts.html

This is, of course, if your engine is a pull start, manual choke. If it is electric start, auto choke it would be slightly different but still relatively the same in shape and components.

Let me know.

jgmo, you have such an optimistic outlook, all problems can be overcome.I really appreciate the trouble you're taking.
The first picture looks a bit like it, I will not be at the boat til the weekend, weather permitting, we are having torrential rain at the moment. I will take the pictures with me. Next snag, I do not have internet there. Yes it is a pull start, manual choke.
Its a bit like teach yourself brain surgery, isn't it. Can the carb be taken off in 6 easy steps? otherwise I might have to think again. I can do fiddly things if I know what they are.

Snappie,

First let me say it is nowhere near brain surgery. Otherwise, I would NEVER have even gotten close to getting it right myself. You can do this.

My friends would guffaw at the idea that I'm the "eternal optimist". My nickname is Dark Cloud! Well, it used to be. Now it is Gray Cloud. It's the hair you see.

If, indeed, you own the '05 9.9 Honda, then you are in possession of one of the FINEST line of outboards ever produced. They take a lickin' and, well, you know the rest. VERY RELIABLE when maintained properly. Don't blame the outboard, blame the lack of good, clean fuel and lack of diligence in keeping the carburetor drained.

It literally takes the removal of 4 bolts, 2 short and 2 long to remove the carburetor. That, along with disconnecting the fuel line and throttle linkage (careful here!) is all it takes to have it in your hand.

More later.

Bolts, I can do. (surely). The fuel line, if I remember rightly, has a little wire clip. The diagram in this book (did I mention I have an owners manual?) shows a fuel filter on that line, presumably. Then theres some other similar pipes. Oh look, it mentions a carburetor drain screw, see page 45 and a diagram! Not very clear. And to replace the fuel line connecter with a cap when storing.
The throttle linkage, you described as an arc or quadrant, thats the tricky bit then.

There are a couple of "tricky bits". The first is removing the two short bolts that hold the plastic intake cover or "muffler" as Honda calls it. refer to this link and observe part #5

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2006/BF9.9D6 LHA /MUFFLER COVER/parts.html

Those two bolts have a tendency to seize in the bronze nuts that are encapsulated in the part # 3 listed as "plate, muffler".

If you force those bolts, especially the top one for some reason, they will cause the bronze nuts to spin and break the plastic housing. Not a big deal if they do but VERY aggravating to a purist. I work on a fleet of these and just can't replace each one that breaks so, I just use zip ties to secure them again when they do. But, if you can spray them with rust penetrate as far in advance of the chore as possible, you can usually get them to break free without too much trouble.

I try to spray them and then use two ball peen hammers to "shock" the threads prior to dis-assembly. Place the peen end of one hammer against the nut and then strike the head of the bolt with the other. Several blows like this are required.

See, I told you it was going to be easy

More later.

hi jgmo,
many thanks for latest, will have a look and a cautious try, am away first thing, will let you know how i get on.
All best for now!

Update on my engine (very boring, please ignore) I did not drop any parts on the sand but the bit off the screw driver went down into the engine. It does not seem to matter. Then the bar manager came out and spent half an hour or so with the engine, he tapped something with a hammer, took something else out and blew down it (a jet?) undid the drain screw, generally tinkered in a knowledgeable way, used some engine start and hey presto. I wish I knew exactly what he had done. He advised I give it a good run which I did, and then run the engine on after use with the supply disconnected to empty the carb, when leaving for any time, which I have done and it has been amazingly improved. It has started with one or two pulls and no easy start. (so far) I have also ordered a new clip for the fuel supply, as he thinks its perished and bits may jam the something I forget in the whatsit. It may be sticking. So fingers crossed! Thanks very much to all for advice, especially jgmo known for finding silver in every cloud. all very best for now,
Jan

HA HO!...That's the one TRICK I neglected to mention....The BAR MANAGER!.....WORKS EVERY TIME!

You could never know exactly what he did to fix it, for if you did, that would mean that he serves weak ones.

Glad to hear you're "properly putting" again. Not that I would ever deign to usurp the authority or advice of any knowledgeable barman, but remember that carburetor drain screw you found on page 45 of the manual? Please do yourself (and the manager) a favor and use that screw instead of just running the fuel out of the engine.

Running the engine until it stops does not always get all the residual fuel out and does nothing whatsoever to eliminate any particles that are collected in and around that drain that will be floated and swirled up into the carb the very next time fuel is added.

Other than that, fair winds to ye and I hope we don't see you back here for a good bit.

Thanks again for more useful info, and all for free! while local advice cost a half pint of Carling.
I'm sure it won't be the last problem I have with my dear Honda engine.