Logo
FULL SITE MENU

Question j25rcsa 1980

shawnfish

shawnfish

Regular Contributor
For the life of me i cant figure out where my cam actuator is located or if there is one?
And if not i see nothing between the shift lever and shift rod that would move the rod up or down to engage the dog. Please help!!
 
shawnfish said:
For the life of me i cant figure out where my cam actuator is located or if there is one?
And if not i see nothing between the shift lever and shift rod that would move the rod up or down to engage the dog. Please help!!
Click to expand...

The cam is attached to the from of the armature plate on many models and rides against the carburetor throttle roller as the throttle/spark advance is advanced.

The shift rod is on the other end of the shift lever rod, under the powerhead, a not visible item.
 
kimcrwbr1 said:
in the center of the leg is a plate with two screws pull that plate and on the inside is the shift coupler that connects the upper shaft with the lower shaft. If your pulling the gearbox only pull the upper bolt out of the coupler and the gearbox will then drop down after you unbolt it.
Click to expand...

joereeves said:
the cam is attached to the from of the armature plate on many models and rides against the carburetor throttle roller as the throttle/spark advance is advanced.

The shift rod is on the other end of the shift lever rod, under the powerhead, a not visible item.
Click to expand...

i know where the upper and lower shift rod connect, just got done doing my pump and some bearings and seals. I may not have worded the question so it could be understood better, sorry. What connects the shift rod and shift lever to make the shift rod go up and down and make the dog work. Starting in 1981 on the 25's there is a cam actuator that works like a lever so when you move the shift lever it either pulls up or pushes down the shift rod. In my service manual i see nothing that would do what the cam actuator does from 81 on........
 
kimcrwbr1 said:
when you say shift dog your talking in the gearbox correct. If your having trouble getting it into gear you probably didnt get the shift fork in the gearcase all the way into the saddle. Are you posative it is correct in the gearbox. What is the problem your having.
Click to expand...

yeah kim the dog in the gearcase, the yoke(shiftfork) and cradle(saddle) are fine and both gearcases have the same # on the inside. It was shifting fine for a couple days and now maybe 1 out of three times when i trie to shift(rev or fwd) it does not want to fully go into gear unless i back off just a little bit towards neutral and then back to fwd or rev and it goes right in. When i went to the marina to get my gearcase seal i took my whole prop shaft assembley(gears,washers,bearings etc..) to have my grandpas old mechanics son look at it and he said hes never seen a 32yr old assembley in better condition. Ive tried adjusting the shift lever and adjustment lever every wich way possible and no luck, on my manual schematic it shows a spacer between 2 lockwashers behind the shift lever and thats in there but it shows a shim between the retainer??? And shifter lock that from the diagram i cant tell what or where it is. I'll post a pic in a few mins.
 
006 (600x800).jpg

theres the shim, and the retainer that i cant find because i guess i dont really understand the diagram. Should i be able to see the armature plate or is it under the lower motor cover??? I see the shifter lock where the bushing sits in its respective notch for each gear.
 
kimcrwbr1 said:
between the shift handle and the shaft that goes into the housing is a adjusting slide. First you need to confirm the coupler between the shift rods upper and lower is correct and good and tight. The bolt holes on the coupler needs to be center of the grooves in the shafts and tight. Disconnect the shift cable if it has one and put the shift lever straight up. Is it all the way in neutral engine off shift in forward while spinning the prop then shift it in reverse you want the same amount of throw in both directions from straight up. Also look at the shift lock detent lever the detent pin on the shift handle shoud be center of the low spots on the shift lock lever. The detent can keep it from fully enguaging the shift dog fully into forward.
Click to expand...

kimcrwbr1 said:
cool look at 5 shift it into reverse and loosen the bolt and push the handle back to where the detent is center in the reverse notch on the shift lock lever and tighten it down. Then see if the shifter goes all the way in nforward gear be sure and turn the prop while shifting.
Click to expand...

ive tried this many times also, but...my manual say nothing about spinning the prop while shifting. It says to check, after both levers are tight shift to fwd and i should feel a slight drag while moving prop back and forth, neutral should spin freely and rev i should feel avery slight or no drag when turning prop shaft back and forth and i can get it to do all 3. Gonna check the coupler again and try to re adjust the shift lever. Let ya know what i find. Thanks a lot!!
 
Originally you asked about a cam... this leads a experienced mechanic right into the synchronization setup of the timing/carburetor area, obviously not the are you're having a problem with.... so forget about the cam mention and the armature plate as the cam pertains to the carburetor and the armature plate pertains to the ignition.

The service manual can lead the inexperienced outboard owner into mechanical difficulties when certain areas are not fully understood such as if the engine is not running, why the propeller needs to be spun when shifting... and this can result in over complicating matters, at least in ones mind.

If a engine shifted okay previously, and the only thing that was done was to drop the lower unit to install a water pump and some seals etc..... that would not have affected any of the mechanical areas above the lower unit excepting when the shift rod connects to the brass shift connector.

Now, that being said.... After you re-installed the lower unit.... what problem did you encounter?
 
joereeves said:
originally you asked about a cam... This leads a experienced mechanic right into the synchronization setup of the timing/carburetor area, obviously not the are you're having a problem with.... So forget about the cam mention and the armature plate as the cam pertains to the carburetor and the armature plate pertains to the ignition.

The service manual can lead the inexperienced outboard owner into mechanical difficulties when certain areas are not fully understood such as if the engine is not running, why the propeller needs to be spun when shifting... And this can result in over complicating matters, at least in ones mind.

If a engine shifted okay previously, and the only thing that was done was to drop the lower unit to install a water pump and some seals etc..... That would not have affected any of the mechanical areas above the lower unit excepting when the shift rod connects to the brass shift connector.

Now, that being said.... After you re-installed the lower unit.... What problem did you encounter?
Click to expand...

after putting the lower unit back on i had no problem, after takin the boat out a couple times it started not wanting to shift into gear 100% un less i back off towards neutral or all the way back to neutral and then back into gear(does it in fwd and rev equally). I asked about the cam actuator because i looked at the diagram for 81 25hp and saw it connected to the shift lever, but mine dont have it, just trying to figure out why it wont shift, tried everything stated above exept checking the shift rod(for a 2nd time) connecter in the exhaust housing, havent got a chance to run out to garage yet...
 
kimcrwbr1 said:
I say start from scratch you need to confirm the gearbox is correct. I drain the oil and drop the gearbox. Pull out the pump and driveshaft and have a hole on my bench to stick the shift shaft into to work on a level surface take out the pivot pin and pull the skeg. assure the shift fork is snapped into the saddle and put it in neutral. It may take a couple trys to line the pivot pin hole up to the fork pivot very important to get that correct then install the pivot pin and a couple screws down snug. Then put the driveshaft in and turn it clockwise as you shift the driveshaft should spin free and when it goes into gear you should feel light resistance from the prop shaft. Put the rest of the screws into the skeg and torque it to spec and test it again. If the saddle is loose you need to replace it that slop could be part of your problem. A common mistake is adjusting the forward gear where the saddle has constant pressure on the dog and it wears out premature. Anyway remove the coupler and install it on the lower shift shaft and center the bolt hole as close as possible and get it tight. Allways turn the driveshaft clock when and after you install the water pump. Make sure the upper shift shaft is center on the coupler hole and tighten it down. To check the upper shift adjustment put the shift handle in the neutral notch on the shift lock lever the prop should spin free put in forward you need to spin the prop to line up the dog is the detent fully in the forward notch on the shift lock then shift it into reverse is the detent full in the reverse notch. Again your engine does not have the cam actuator it uses a follower to sync the timing with fuel delivery.
Click to expand...

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!! thats got to be it, i remember a long time ago me and my grandpa had the skeg off doing something but i cant remember but anyways he was showing me how to put everything back on and i remember him saying(not his words) take the saddle and put it in the shift fork and you will feel a light snap when the 2 little pins on the fork click into the saddle and then you take the fork and lift it from the bottom and the fork and saddle go on the dog and be real staedy with your hand and u can get it to stay but its tricky. the saddle must be worn out because theres not even the slightest bit of resistance when i put it on the fork or the dog. sound right???
 
shawnfish said:
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!! thats got to be it, i remember a long time ago me and my grandpa had the skeg off doing something but i cant remember but anyways he was showing me how to put everything back on and i remember him saying(not his words) take the saddle and put it in the shift fork and you will feel a light snap when the 2 little pins on the fork click into the saddle and then you take the fork and lift it from the bottom and the fork and saddle go on the dog and be real staedy with your hand and u can get it to stay but its tricky. the saddle must be worn out because theres not even the slightest bit of resistance when i put it on the fork or the dog. sound right???
Click to expand...

both skegs have same number on the inside, and both line up with each other perfectly....
 
ears and gears were were sharp, mechanic at my marina said they look great for their age. not real sure what groove on the saddle you mean but i do know the saddle wiggles when its on the clutch dog, i remember that. gonna look for best price on the cradle and saddle and possibly a clutch dog also even though it looks fine i figure why not replace all 3 since theres 3 peices that work together in there.....
 
kimcrwbr1 said:
I`m talking the groove in the clutch dog where the saddle rides it is metal and the saddle is aluminum the clutch sounds fine same with the fork unless there is play in the pivot pin. as you can see the clutch only travels a short distance in either direction. All the little stuff adds up. grab the upper shift shaft and see how much play is in the shift lever also. What kind of condition is the coupler between the two shift shafts in. I have had to replace that also it didnt want to hold the shafts good and tight and stripped the threads in the coupler reefing on it. You will get it fingered out.
Click to expand...

pretty sure thats it, just wish i could get out to take it apart! gonna check the coupler too. shift lever a tiny tiny bit to no play but will still check coupler. thanks alot kim again, have a good night!
 
032 (800x600).jpg034 (800x600).jpg036 (800x600).jpg

here was the culprit, cant beleive i missed that! What a dough head mistake. Got a new dog,cradle and yoke and just need to get to the marina to get my seal to put it back together....thanks kim and joe for the input.
I'll post results when its done....
 
Back
Top