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Honda 225 surging at mid range RPM'S

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Ballyhoo43

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I have a honda 2005 225. The motor is having a problem at mid range rpm's i get to like 2,000 rpms and then it starts to surge (seems to be starving for fuel) I took and inspected the filter by the oil dipstick, it seemed ok. I then took and inspected the High pressure fuel pump at the rear of the engine i removed the cowling and everything else in the way to get to it. I replaced the filter (old filter was collapsed) put everything back together and then put the boat in the ramp and then i had a leak with fuel in the water. (long story short pinched the O ring on pump and now replaced it) Put the boat back in and then off i went and the boat ran perfect for about 200 yards on top and then started to surge again. I have a brand new racor filter and also pulling out off a plastic above deck tank. Please help as i am out of ideas. Thanks Jordan
 
A couple of things come to mind.

I assume you have good fresh gas....

Try squeezing the fuel bulb as it fails. If it corrects the problem (which it probably will not), then you have a low pressure supply problem.

You said you checked the high pressure pump. Did you actually take it out and clean out the screen that is under the pump? If you go back in and try to do that, you will probably need to just replace it, since it is difficult to remove without damage.

Also, if you removed the vapor separator, recheck the hose connections shown in the manual and be sure that none got kinked or connected incorrectly when you reinstalled it.

The other thing that will limit your rpms, would be if the neutral safety switch is not operating properly (out of adjustment, faulty, etc). The engine may think it is still in neutral and will accelerate to somewhere around 2000-3000 rpm, then the engine will start bucking and resisting any further rpms. Now that I think more about the neutral safety, it probably is ok, if you ran above 3000 rpm for 200 yards.

Mike
 
You would have to remove the vapor separator assembly from the engine. It is actually mounted on the side of the vapor separator, but while it is off you should take the top cover off of the vapor separator and clean it out. Then, take the cover off of the fuel pump housing. You have to pull the high pressure pump out. http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard%20Engine/2005/BF225A5%20XA%20/VAPOR%20SEPARATOR%20ASSY./parts.html

I highly suggest getting a Honda Service Manual from Helminc.com, if you do not already have it. Also, be sure to take a lot of pictures, so you get all the hoses back exactly as there were before you took anything apart. As you have probably have noticed, there is a lot of stuff jammed into that area...and everything is important.

Mike
 
You would have to remove the vapor separator assembly from the engine. It is actually mounted on the side of the vapor separator, but while it is off you should take the top cover off of the vapor separator and clean it out. Then, take the cover off of the fuel pump housing. You have to pull the high pressure pump out. http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H.../BF225A5 XA /VAPOR SEPARATOR ASSY./parts.html

I highly suggest getting a Honda Service Manual from Helminc.com, if you do not already have it. Also, be sure to take a lot of pictures, so you get all the hoses back exactly as there were before you took anything apart. As you have probably have noticed, there is a lot of stuff jammed into that area...and everything is important.

Mike
 
Hey mike just wanted to give u a heads up figured everything out and the motor runs great. I drained the vapor seperator I believe is what it's called.. It had about a pint of water in it when I drained it. I don't know how there is water in it.. There is a racor filter in between the motor and tank. I just wanted to update this so if someone else has the same problem!! Thanks again mike!



Jordan
 
Make it a habit to drain the VST at every 100-hour maintenance. There is a small set screw on the VST next to the end of the clear plastic drain tube. Put the plastic tube in a quart jar, then carefully turn the screw about 3 to 4 turns. You'll need a 10 inch flat blade screwdriver to do this without removing the cowling. If nothing comes out, blow air into the tube to clear the small opening that will often get clogged.
 
hondadude said:
I hope that does it. Thanks for the feedback.

Mike
Click to expand...


thanks guys. i have the same problem. 2012, 225 with 83 hours. my surging is very slight and intermentent. I just removed my low and high pressure filter. Just ordered new ones. How do you drain the vapor seperator?

thanks, dale
 
There should be a clear tube down near your high pressure fuel pump with a tiny set screw.. Place the tue in a bottle/jar turn the set screw until fuel start coming out and let it drain.
 
Ballyhoo43 said:
There should be a clear tube down near your high pressure fuel pump with a tiny set screw.. Place the tue in a bottle/jar turn the set screw until fuel start coming out and let it drain.
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks, I did that. the hose was long enought to go over the right side engine cover, but no fluid would come out. so i removed the cover, and let the hose dangle. then it draineded about 2 pints of fuel. No water was present!. thanks again.
 
A slight surge in the 4200 to 4600 rpm range (about +/- 50 rpm) is somewhat normal on these engines. Seems like the V-Tec can's make up its mind where it wants to be. No one seems to know exactly why that happens, but I have been experiencing it since I bought the engine new. One person suggested it's a quirky ECM, but that was just speculation.

If there is interest in this issue, I'll start anoother thread. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
Hey c hawk what kinda rpms should I get on my motor? I am a commercial waterman and I have a Parker from the later 80's.. Commercial hull. Right now I in about 27 28 mph at about 3700 to 3800.. That's my max.. I cruise at around 21 to 22 mph at 3000 rpms just doesn't seem right to me..
 
No, that doesn't sound right. My 25 ft. '92 C-Hawk has the same hull, if we are talking about the one with the 9'6" beam in the middle that tapers slightly narrower to the aft. My boat weighs just under 6000 lbs. fully loaded - 120 gal. gas, outriggers, windless, big anchor, rods & reels, etc. etc. WOT on the engine is 6000 rpm in calm water. At that rpm I'm doing 38 to 40 mph, depending whether or not the outriggers are mounted. At 3800 rpm, I'm getting right around 20 mph, plus or minus. At 3000 rpm, I'm only at about 11 mph. So, it sounds like you are greatly over-prop'ed. The prop I'm running is 14.25" diameter and a 15" pitch. Your engine needs to be prop'ed so that WOT is at least 5500 rpm. 6000 rpm is optimal.
 
chawk_man said:
A slight surge in the 4200 to 4600 rpm range (about +/- 50 rpm) is somewhat normal on these engines. Seems like the V-Tec can's make up its mind where it wants to be. No one seems to know exactly why that happens, but I have been experiencing it since I bought the engine new. One person suggested it's a quirky ECM, but that was just speculation.

If there is interest in this issue, I'll start anoother thread. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Hi chawk_man, i have a 2006 225 Honda, and it surges between 4000 - 4500 rpm, revs will fluctuate up to 150 rpm, it will rev up for approx 8-10 seconds, then back down for 8-10 seconds. Sometimes if I rev it above 4500 for a few minutes, then back down to 4200 it may not fluctuate. I have changed out all fuel filters, including high pressure, vst has been drained, and removed and screen cleaned, idle air controller screen cleaned, 02 sensor replaced, spark plugs replaced, and fuel pressure regulator replaced, but still does it. Next step i think is ECM..........whats your thoughts?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated
 
Incorrect valve clearance can cause this issue, intake .008" exhaust .012", engine cold, take your time and double check when you're done, this is very critical and has a major impact on how smoothly these engines run.
 
Also, check your Intake Air Bypass (IAB) mechanism. Here is the procedure...

To check your IAB for proper operation, the next time you change out the high pressure fuel filter, check the IAB first.

• Open up both sides of the upper cowling by first removing the two bolts under the cover at the rear of the engine – those two below the exhaust outlet.
• Remove the six or so bolts on each half of the top of the cowling.
• Peel back each side of the cowling so it clears the exhaust outlets.
• (This is the same as you would do to get access to the HP fuel filter to change it out.)

There sitting in front of the HP fuel filter you will see the IAB control diaphragm. Disconnect the vacuum hose to the diaphragm. The diaphragm is held in place by two Phillips head screws that you typically remove to get to the HP fuel filter. Remove those two screws, swinging the diaphragm aside.

Grab the lever coming out of the diaphragm and pull on it as if the diaphragm was being activated. It should move until the spring arm engages (or nearly engages) the “stop” adjustment screw. Then let go and it should pop right back in place. If so, the IAB is operating as intended.

Before you re-install the diaphragm, hold it in your hand, gently push the arm back into the diaphragm, and hold your finger over the opening in the tube that the vacuum hose attaches too. When you let go of the arm, it should come out a little bit and stay there until you remove your finger. If so, then the diaphragm is operating correctly. If not, the diaphragm is leaking air and must be replaced. Unfortunately, it looks like a replacement is not available, since that diaphragm is part of the entire IAB assembly. However, I suspect that if you search around a bit, you should be able to find a replacement for this fairly standard part.
 
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