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shift rod shaft dropped need help

aristakat

aristakat

Regular Contributor
Okay my Saga continues need imput :

I brought boat to ramp today and on one of my twin honda 225,2002 motors starboard motor wouldn't shift properly after investigating ended bring home to find that e-clip on shift shaft had popped off washer above clip was still there but no sign of clip.... Looks that the shaft has slipped down and not sure how to get all meshed back up so up gears our in nuteral and gear case is ?
I planned to take to a mechanic but am wondering is there a way to get above shaft to line dots up without pulling power head ? Was told by one mechanic that this job is not a garage mechanic deal which really make me want to do it myself that much more since I have been told that before on other aspects of motors ? Any imput guys ,I have appontment hopefully Tuesday
part #48
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...000001 TO BAGJ-1099999/SHIFT SHAFT/parts.html
 
Just did my homework bassically reviewed service Manual looks like to get all realigned it requires pulling bottom half and top half off(powerhead).
Looks like beyond my scope unless someone can tell me how to align shafts without major breakdown which I doubt.. Crazy how one clip could cause this much issue
 
I hope I do not to wordy...but here goes.

First of all, you will probably have to remove your lower unit (maybe even the mid section to recover #30 washer. ..but you should be able to do this without taking off powerhead.

Get a new e ring, you probably popped it off when you put you shift shaft back up.

There is a method explained in the Honda manual in Cables/Shift Link Bracket/Shift Arm Section. It is Section 16 in my manual. Part 7 (Shift Shaft Alignment) shows a way to get things back in line.
Just follow the step by step.

Before you get to that, you might be able to do the same thing from the bottom, once you recover the washer. Stick it up in place with some grease.

If you have your shifter in neutral and you can see that the shift detent on the front of the engine is in the neutral position (if you are not sure, if you can crank the engine, it is probably in place)...then you are half way there.

Gently reinstall your long shift shaft coming from the lower unit. There is a flat spot inside the bottom of the shift shaft. I usually put a needle nose inside the end of the shift shaft, that way when you insert it, you can easily tell that the shift shaft is in the neutral position if it is facing forward. Just remember that what you are putting it into (shift shaft A), shift shaft A is not in the neutral position at this time. So you will have to see (probably with a small mirror), what position it is actually in. Once you get them mated, then you should be able to push the whole assembly up a little, then rotate everything back to the neutral position.

You will probably have to have a second pair of hands with a long needle nose to help hold things in place where they meet then help pull the whole assembly back down, since the long shift shaft is probably not locked into the shift shaft A yet. Once it is pulled back down, and can try turning is side to side to check that the gears (on shift shaft A) are locked into shift shaft B. If you can not turn it, you are probably in good shaft.

Now put your e clip on. Did I tell you to buy two of them in case you pop the first one off as you are trying to put it on? Murphy's Law. It will go somewhere and not be found.

Then, with you helper holding the shaft of Shift Shaft A, gently tap the end of the long shift shaft so that it goes into shift shaft A.

Also, make sure your gear case is in neutral before you put it back on.

Hope that wasn't too way out there.

Mike
 
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Mike said it better then I could have (exact same thing happened to me)

I'll add:

1)) my washer fell down the shift rod; I was able to push it back up the rod with a long piece of wire--no need to remove mid-section cover
2)) instead of holding the washer in place with grease, I put a notch in a piece of cardboard so it fit like a collar around the shift shaft. This kept the washer from falling back down into the mid-section but also reduced the possibility of having the new "E" ring fall down there when trying to slip it back into the groove in the shift shaft
3)) I was able to replace the "E" ring using TWO pairs of extra-long needle nose pliers. They really helped to get the flanges into the groove then keep them in the groove when applying pressure to spread the "E" open
4)) I got lucky with getting the gearing of Shift Shaft A to properly engage with Shift Shaft B---my BF150 shifts like new now
5)) Maybe Mike will chime in but the Boats.net schematic is confusing---

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...0 LA VIN# BAGJ-1500001/SHIFT SHAFT/parts.html

I think you'll only need Part 42, not Part 7

good luck!
 
Marketic has some good ideas. Anything to make this process easier.

Just do everything very slowly and methodically. Be patient.

My reference to Part 7 was to refer to the subsection in the manual where instructions are located to resyncronize the shift shafts A and B.

One of either part # 48 or #51 will have to be ordered based on serial number on the frame. One clip is 10MM and the other is 12MM.


Mike
 
Hi Mike

My reference to Part No. 7 was from the schematic (Part No. 7 = "Ring Stopper" ) When I replaced my "E" ring I also purchased this Ring Stopper but it doesn't appear to be required --just the "E" ring, correct?
 
Marketic,

I agree. Part #7 is actually the small ring that goes around the end of the long shift shaft. Its purpose is to help lock the long shift shaft in place inside Shift Shaft A.

Mike
 
Awesome Mike thanks so much, going to try tommorrow. questions?

1.) Is the shift detent the arm where shift cable is attached to on ?If it is shift detent is in neutral now but throttle up fron is in position as if I had motors in reverse(hope explanation is clear). So I assume as long as detent is in neutral I should be able to snap spring open to lift shift cable of detent for now then reattch once Iget shift b and shaft a meshed back ?

2.) The shift rod itself from what I can see on both ends doesn't have a flat section looks to me that, looks to be splined/grooved entirely maybe I slid on before and messed up spline in shift rod ? I see on shaft A looks to have a flat spot facing front, and on gear case the flat side is facing front because I can use shift rod to move that in forward,netural,or reverse... Shfit rod goes on shaft a and gear spine on any spot thats why I think flat spot has been made into all spline ? I think I might need a new shift rod is real question here?
3.) I have washer that is above e-clip but eclip is gone ordered new one, doesn't look like pulling midcase will give me any more space to work because shaft A is above swivel bracket/tight space ? Also mirror what would that help me see looks to me that where shift shaft A comes out there is no space surrounding it to allow me to see anything that I can't see from side view with flashlight ?

4.) I am still somewhat lost because shift shaft A has flat spot facing forward and I have gear shaft facing forward , BUT throttle control at helm is in reverse position ? Does this mean shift shaft B is not aligned ? Shift shaft A will not twist but does move up and down a little . Seems like I need a new shift rod and eclip BUT where I am stumped is out to realign throttles at helm so they are not in reverse positin when everything visible shows netrual ..??

thanks and sorry Mike for all the question just seems if I had the knowledge of the interworkings this would be a simple fix...

Mike if you get tired of typing I would be glad to call you or you could call me if or when you have a free second 941-321-0852
24hrs my friend

I just don't want to break entire motor down if there is a easier fix ?

thanks
Jamie





hondadude said:
I hope I do not to wordy...but here goes.

First of all, you will probably have to remove your lower unit (maybe even the mid section to recover #30 washer. ..but you should be able to do this without taking off powerhead.

Get a new e ring, you probably popped it off when you put you shift shaft back up.

There is a method explained in the Honda manual in Cables/Shift Link Bracket/Shift Arm Section. It is Section 16 in my manual. Part 7 (Shift Shaft Alignment) shows a way to get things back in line.
Just follow the step by step.

Before you get to that, you might be able to do the same thing from the bottom, once you recover the washer. Stick it up in place with some grease.

If you have your shifter in neutral and you can see that the shift detent on the front of the engine is in the neutral position (if you are not sure, if you can crank the engine, it is probably in place)...then you are half way there.

Gently reinstall your long shift shaft coming from the lower unit. There is a flat spot inside the bottom of the shift shaft. I usually put a needle nose inside the end of the shift shaft, that way when you insert it, you can easily tell that the shift shaft is in the neutral position if it is facing forward. Just remember that what you are putting it into (shift shaft A), shift shaft A is not in the neutral position at this time. So you will have to see (probably with a small mirror), what position it is actually in. Once you get them mated, then you should be able to push the whole assembly up a little, then rotate everything back to the neutral position.

You will probably have to have a second pair of hands with a long needle nose to help hold things in place where they meet then help pull the whole assembly back down, since the long shift shaft is probably not locked into the shift shaft A yet. Once it is pulled back down, and can try turning is side to side to check that the gears (on shift shaft A) are locked into shift shaft B. If you can not turn it, you are probably in good shaft.

Now put your e clip on. Did I tell you to buy two of them in case you pop the first one off as you are trying to put it on? Murphy's Law. It will go somewhere and not be found.

Then, with you helper holding the shaft of Shift Shaft A, gently tap the end of the long shift shaft so that it goes into shift shaft A.

Also, make sure your gear case is in neutral before you put it back on.

Hope that wasn't too way out there.

Mike
Click to expand...
 
Mike would be the final word on this but based on your frame No., it looks like you'll be wanting Part No. 51, the 12 mm "E" clip
 
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Okay Mike once agin went back to manual to section 16, I saw dentent spring, and shift arm above shift shaft b. I also read directions on realigning more then a couple of times.....

still intrested in knowing if long shift shaft should have a flat section on each side on bottom ? I ask because I don't see flat section on ends of my shift rod even cleaned out to make more visable..
 
called boats.net and ordered part 51 , also had them check with my serial number said that should be 51 fixed thanks
should be 12mm eclip on older model
 
About the flat spot on the top of the long shift rod...I am not sure. They have made some changes over the years so I can not say for sure. Someone else may have more knowledge there.

If everything on the bottom end was in neutral, but your shifter was in reverse, it does sound like it is the upper part that is out of sync or you have a broken or missadjusted shift cable or lever. However, since you have pulled the lower unit and removed the long shift shaft, you can not tell exactly where you are.

You have to get the upper part into neutral. You know that the flat spot on the bottom of the long shift shaft has to be in the front. Once you reinstall the long shift shaft, have someone shift to be sure that it will rotate the same amount both ways. If it does not, then you have to push up and make a slight correction in the gear mesh of shift shafts A and B. If it goes the same amount both ways, but the flat spot is off center, then you will have to pull the long shift shaft back out and reinsert it to make the correction.

To make a long story short, you just have to find where it is out of sync and adjust accordingly. Having pulled the long shift shaft, you may have two places where it is out of sync if you changed the rotation of the long shift shaft.

I know the space is tight, but if you have anything like a dental mirror or even a small piece of broken mirror (have someone else break it...so it is their bad luck), you should be able to check it.

Mike
 
okay so far good day took boat down to a local marine shop between Me,service manual,and his knowledge we adjusted shift B and got it back in sync with shaft A.... Now that I did it all sounds reconizable parts and shaft A, and shaft B etc..... just got to put gear case on BUT checked throttle and eyeballed shaft A to make sure sihifted properly and believe it or not it DID :) Now will see how it goes with gear case and shfit rod on
 
Good to hear you have it worked out. It is not rocket science but can be very confusing and frustrating.

Be careful not to force the lower unit up...all should slip together (with maybe a little coaxing) especially the shift shaft.

Now you know all the "secrets".

Mike
 
Words of wisdom for sure, Mike. I broke Mechanics Rule No. 1 and did try to force the LU back on--- paid the price with a popped-off "E" ring and a few hours of frustration to get everything back together.

What I mistakenly thought was corrosion on the seating pins of the LU and mid-section keeping everything from going back together smoothly was actually the splines of the shift shaft and shift rod not seating properly. End result--- forcing the LU back on (too embarassed to tell you how I accomplished the use of "force") basically ended up shoving the shift rod up towards the power head, disengaging shift rod "A" and shift rod B" in the process. Wonderful feeling-- launching the boat, firing her up, shifting into gear, and nothing happens.

I post this just in case other guys are faced with the same deal-- a cautionary tale at best

.
 
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Pretty much what happend to me also I feel I remember shift shaft not going up smoothly BUT shifted good for a few trips untill eclip popped..
Local Honda dealer had a Honda 225 in parts in back gave me a eclip :) from parts... TOO All reading Lower unit should go up smoothly....
I just put my lower unit back on it when on smoothhhhhhh , As always used needle nose visegrips to hold shift rod on top shaft/shift shaft A
that way when slid Lower unit up I only have to mate bottom spline on gear case... Shifted throttles forward ,netrual,reverse, then made sure engine wants to start in netrual I.E. shfit detent arm was correct on netrual switch... WHAT DO you know it all worked......

Thanks Mike and Marketic for advise it helped BIG time .
By the way I used the grease trick to hold washer up on shift shaft A while seating eclip..... Had carboard ready but grease worked fine expecially with extra set of hands and a flat head screwdriver to hold it up...


Jamie


marketic said:
Words of wisdom for sure, Mike. I broke Mechanics Rule No. 1 and did try to force the LU back on--- paid the price with a popped-off "E" ring and a few hours of frustration to get everything back together.

What I mistakenly thought was corrosion on the seating pins of the LU and mid-section was actually the splines of the shift shaft and shift rod not seating properly. End result--- forcing the LU back on shoved the shift rod up towards the power head, disengaging shift rod "A" and shift rod B" in the process. Wonderful feeling-- launching the boat, firing her up, shifting into gear, and nothing happens.

I post this just in case other guys are faced with the same deal-- a cautionary tale for sure

.
Click to expand...
 
sorry one more thing Long shift rod doesn't have a flat part on either side its all splined at least on this shift rod .. Works great though
 
Sorry for hijacking an old thread, but i just did this myself today while trying to get the lower unit back on. I have the e-ring, but the washer seems to be missing. How far down would this have fallen?? And what's the easiest way to retrieve where it may have fallen? What I'm gathering from reading is it fell down the shift shaft rod - just not sure how far down we're talking? Would a magnet work to retrieve with some fish line??

I will mention that i was able to get the lower unit back on (after taking it off and realigning the shift shaft on the lu. I guess it sounds like it's still necessary to get that e-ring on there with the washer, although I'm not sure why..

I'll also add that my engine is shifting so parts A & B are aligned.
 
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