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Byte
03-18-2011, 10:04 AM
I had my boat trucked from one side of Australia to the other side (East to West) late last year.

In their travels, they damaged a few things.

One of these things was the steering - as they manually forced the engine up - the seal on LHS (standing on ground facing rear of boat) steering rod popped out and caused the weight of the motor leaning it's weight on the steering rod and not being able to be moved. I have popped this seal back in it's place, but popped out again after some attempts of steering the wheel and I do not know how to ensure this seal stays in it's place now.

Also, I cannot steer the motor to the right any more (standing on ground facing rear of boat). For some reason, something feels like it is jammed or siezed.

Any thoughts on these 2 issues would be much appreciated.

Byte

joereeves
03-18-2011, 11:50 AM
I've read your post over a few times but cannot visualize this "steering popped out" problem, assuming that the steering method is mechanical cable steering.

Normally, thru someone else's carelessness, what happens is that the steering rod becomes slightly bent just outside of the engines steering tube, then jams as it is pulled into the tube. This scenario requires either straightening the bent portion if possible or replacing the steering cable.

If this isn't the problem you've encountered, a few pictures might help to clarify.

haffiman37
03-18-2011, 12:11 PM
LHS - Hydraulic steering.
However to know which type of steering you have, we need a pic or further spec as it is not a OMC original one, but some other brand.

Byte
03-18-2011, 09:42 PM
Thanks for replies.

The steering is OEM original Johnson circa 1989.

It is not hydraulic steering, but mechanical steering.

LHS = Left hand side.

"Steering popped out" = Seal on LHS (standing on ground facing rear of boat) steering rod popped out.

I will try to insert some pictures shortly.

So, basically, I cannot turn the steering wheel any further to the right to turn the motor form central position to the RHS (Right Hand Side).

Thoughts?

CH1968

haffiman37
03-18-2011, 10:37 PM
OMC/Johnson/Evinrude never made any steering's for the outboards, mechanical or hydraulic with the exception of the power-steering on the V-8.
Most likely a Teleflex or similar connected to the steering tube.
You probably have to remove the cable from the steering mechanism and engine to figure out what has happened.Might be a broken cable, might be a damaged helm.
The only part that is pure 'Johnson' in the system is the tilt-tube on the engine and possibly the connector from cable end to engine steering arm.

Byte
03-18-2011, 10:52 PM
Thanks for the clarification. My mistake for thinking OMC made steering assys.

How do I remove the cable from the steering mechanism and engine?

How do I check if the helm is broken?

Dumb question - what is the helm?

Attached are pictures showing both side of the steering rod (Seal on LHS). Apologies for the scum and dirt shown in these pictures.....

THoughts?


CH1968

Byte
03-19-2011, 12:39 AM
Update.

I now know what the helm is.

I contacted my local outboard dealer and helped me out.

I have decided to replace the cable and steering mechanism in the helm.

But, I cannot completely remove this cable from the motor.

Attached photo shows how close I am.

Tips to extract this final bit of cable from motor?

Will this motor still be intact and connected to the midsection after the cable is removed?

I woudl hate the motor to fall on my legs/feet.

racerone
03-19-2011, 02:11 AM
If you just bought this boat and trucked it accross Auzy land , it must have been a good deal-----------------I am guessing you bought someone else's problem , and nothing to to with trucking it.

haffiman37
03-19-2011, 04:41 AM
Looks like someone has used a hammer on the side where the steering connector goes to the engine. The end-eye has been deformed.
If possible, try to force the cable back in again, take a grinder and cut off the end piece with the eye, then pull the remains out.
Nothing will happen to the engine as long as you do not damage the tilt-tube.

Byte
03-19-2011, 07:18 AM
Racerone - I have owned this boat for 5 years now and yes, I admit have neglected this boat for a couple of years as it has been in storage for that long and sitting and moving from state to state.....

Haffiman37 - What side are you referring to (where the connector goes to the engine - LHS or RHS when facing rear of boat)?

Is the end-eye you refer to noted in the last photo of post #6?

Is this end eye actually part of the cable (probably dumb question)?

How much should I grind off form the end-eye?

Is the tilt tube holding the engine on the transom?

CH1968

haffiman37
03-19-2011, 07:41 AM
Racerone - I admit have neglected this for a couple of years as it has been in storage for that long and sitting.

Haffiman37 - What side are you referring to (where the connector goes to the engine - LHS or RHS when facing rear of boat)?

Is the end-eye you refer to noted in the last photo of post #6?

Is this end eye actually part of the cable (probably dumb question)?

How much should I grind off form the end-eye?

Is the tilt tube holding the engine on the transom?

CH1968

The tilt tube is the tube going through both engine brackets which the engine swings around when tilted.
Normally the cable enters from STB side and is attached to the tilt tube with a big nut.
Goes through the tube and comes out on port side ending in an 'eye' where the steering connector goes.
Normally you remove the cable by removing the steering connector on port side from cable, unscrew the not on STB side and just pull out the cable.
However it is a tight fit and if the end tube of the cable is slightly bent or 'someone' has smacked the end piece with a hammer or similar, it might be a problem getting it out.
Don't worry, the only part that belongs to the engine is the tilt tube with threads (Both stb and port side) which the big steering cable nut is attached to. Whatever comes out on both sides of this tube are cable parts!!

Byte
03-19-2011, 07:47 AM
Thanks For Reply.

How much should I grind off from the end-eye end?

CH1968

haffiman37
03-19-2011, 09:41 AM
You may grind it so you are sure it goes through the tilt tube, or just simply cut it off.

Byte
03-19-2011, 09:48 AM
Thanks.

I was able to extract the whole lot without cutting anything off now.

I will now uninstall the entire cable, measure up and obtain a new one.

Tips/traps for next steps (i.e. uninstall, ordering correct length, type, etc..)?

CH1968

haffiman37
03-19-2011, 11:05 AM
Go to this site, probably what you need of info:
http://www.teleflexmarine.com/products/steering/mechanical-steering/
If planning to keep the boat for a while, invest in a new complete system with helm, bezel kit and cable. You may keep the old steering wheel.

Byte
03-19-2011, 12:31 PM
THanks.

I shall investigate further.

I pulled the cable - it says "TX COntrols 9.16".

I measured it at 8.4m.

So what measurement is correct when ordering a new cable?

Also, I am thinking of raising the steering wheel up around 200mm, so obviously I will have to increase the new cable length length to be a bit longer.

ANd, how do I remove the steering wheel from it's base at helm?


CH1968

Byte
03-19-2011, 08:46 PM
who makes "tx Controls" cables?

CH1968

haffiman37
03-19-2011, 11:07 PM
TX used to be a Swedish company, now taken over by Teleflex Marina which used to be named Teleflex Morse.
Steering wheels might be a bit tricky to get off, mostly this way works:
Take out the wheel center and unscrew the nut until flush with the steering shaft.
Have a big hammer at hand!
If possible, sit down and press your legs UP against the steering wheel, give the center a hard knock with the hammer.
Using pullers etc will often damage the plastic steering wheel.
Do not smack the steering wheel without having the pressure from the back, you will only damage the dash board and risk knocking out your instruments.
If totally corroded, you may have to take the helm apart from the back and pull out the wheel with the shaft attached.
Old steering systems may be a bit corroded and tricky.
Check the 'measurement video' in the link above to get it all correct.

Byte
03-19-2011, 11:38 PM
thanks - why have the nut flush with end of steering shaft?

what does "9.16" mean (stamped on cable)?

CH1968

haffiman37
03-20-2011, 12:57 AM
Gives a bigger surface to hit, protects the threaded part in case you want to re-use the helm assy, keeps the wheel from popping totally off and you loosing balance if using your legs as 'counter' for the wheel!
Most cables have production date codes stamped to be able to identify in cases a 'serial' problem occurs.
Sometimes the code is internal, sometimes it is month and year, sometimes it is production lot, sometimes it is year and week. You should even find the length of the cable stamped somewhere.
You find most of the info in the Teleflex catalog.

Byte
03-20-2011, 01:57 AM
I have had a look at your link and I really do not know what to select form the too many choices listed on that site.

I have looked at this site and see similar issues, but may help..... http://www.teleflex.com.au/Print_Catalogue.aspx

From end to end, I measure 5.22m (17.13 feet).

How do I select a cable from these sites to accommodate my needs?

ALso, what is a bezel kit?

CH1968

haffiman37
03-20-2011, 02:05 AM
The Bezel kit is the attachment kit for the helm. Normally only two types, 90 or 20 degree, unless you want the 'tilt' possibility.
A komplete steering will then be:
Steering helm - bezel kit -steering cable. (Wheel and stering link in addition if you do not want to use the old one).
Here is how to measure:
http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/STEERINGMEASURINGGUIDE.jpg

Byte
03-20-2011, 02:19 AM
Thanks.

The attached pics show my current helm.

I know - basket case, dirty, scummy, etc - but I want to obviously make good this area and do whatever i can to revamp this area - which will include raising my steering wheel about 200mm. I am also considering trimming off the bottom area to allow more leg space.

I want to possibly relocate that small sounder into a lower space that could sit in the area of where the wheel will be sitting. THe only other instrumentation I plan to have mounted is the Odometer, Trim and Tilt guage and switch mechasim (shown in bottom left hand corner - black).

I understand fiberglassing needs to be carried out and ask for ideas on where to start....

Thank you.


CH1968

haffiman37
03-20-2011, 03:19 AM
Where to start?
Get a drill, drill some 3-4mm holes in the circular nut holding the helm to the bezel, crack the nut and the bezel will fall inside!
Then clean out so you may see what to do.
Get some 3mm ABS sheets, mold-wax them and cut to fit behind the openings you want to cover.
Chafer the edges with a grinder, attach the ABS sheets at the back and cover from front with glassfiber/polyester.
Where you want the steering system, be sure you use some 12mm marine plywood and glass in to the get the thickness needed.
When all cured, remove the ABS backing, paint with top-coat, and polish up to wanted gloss. A time consuming job ahead!!

Byte
03-20-2011, 03:43 AM
thanks.

What is the bezel and how does it differ to the helm?

Is mine 90 or 20 degree?

How do I actually remove the the steering flange / assy from the fiberglass shown in the pics?

what do i use to mold-wax the abs sheets?

what does mold waxing mean?

how do i ensure the plywood is rigidly secured in place before i glass it in?

CH1968

haffiman37
03-20-2011, 05:03 AM
Your Bezel is the 90 degree round alu part mounted on your dashboard with 4 screws.
The helm is held in place in the bezel by a round nut with 2 or 4 slots and normally need a special tool to remove. (Teknoflex who made this, normally supplied this tool with the helm kit). However corrosion normally makes it impossible to remove after some years, to remove drill some holes and crack it!!
1906
You need something backing up when covering the holes with glassfiber. You may use some thin plywood, but then have to glass on both sides and it will rot after some time. Using some 'plastic' waxed with the same wax used in the mold when producing boats, will let it go easily afterwords.

Byte
03-20-2011, 05:17 AM
thanks.

i have removed those 4 screws and able to move the bezel out form the dashboard, and will not come away from the dash - but the shaft assy is preventing me from removing it completely from the dash.

does this mean i need to buy the special tool to remove this bezel?

how do i ensure the 12mm marine ply wood (used to mounted steering assy) is secured first before I glass it in - sorry for not understanding..

CH1968

haffiman37
03-20-2011, 05:33 AM
You need to drill some holes in the round nut and crack it!
Glue the wood with Sikaflex (bonding silicone) or similar first.

Byte
03-20-2011, 09:23 AM
thanks - i think i understand now. When you say 'crack it' - do u mean crack it free so that it can move or literally break it?

If to set it free, which way do i crack it - CW or CCW?

When u say "crack the nut and the bezel will fall inside" - what will the bezel fall inside to?

Should I glue the wood on top or on underside of existing dash?

Do the ABS sheets get cut to fit inside the holes or placed over area form underside?

I assume the fiberglass matting will not stick to the ABS sheets?

CH1968

haffiman37
03-20-2011, 11:13 AM
If you drill 2 4 mm holes exactly where the slots are on the not 180 degrees opposite each other, put the wheel nut on the shaft 'flush', give a hard smack and probably the nut will split in two and the helm unit 'fall' inside out of the bezel and all parts are free!!
If you want to 'lift' the steering 20 cm, it looks like you will have to do a major re-do of the whole panel.
I may give some basic about 'how to', but not in detail re-design it.
If you are not familiar with glass fiber/polyester work, it might be both easier and cheaper to let someone do it for you, but make a design drawing first!!
You may either 're-build' on top of present panel with thin plywood and glass over, then cut/grind away at the back what you do not need/want, or just patch up the holes and keep panel as is in design.
Just 'google' a bit about glass fiber repair and design. Might be a messy and itchy job!!

Byte
03-20-2011, 05:00 PM
thanks for advice - i will try and have a go and report back.

Byte
03-26-2011, 07:15 AM
What guages should i have to ensure safe and efficient operation of my motor (1989 110hp johnson 2T) ?

i need to know these so i can start mapping out a hole profile in my new helm area - whichever way i choose.

Byte

haffiman37
03-27-2011, 12:35 AM
The No1 is a rev counter.
A trim instrument is 'nice to have', but a water pressure instrument might be more useful.
Check that your alarm system is working properly by testing horn, sensor/switches!!

Byte
03-27-2011, 02:53 AM
thanks - what is this water pressure instrument called and where is actually measuring?

Byte

collector_inspector
03-27-2011, 05:36 AM
Who was the transport company?

I would like to know as I am in Perth.............

Regards

B

haffiman37
03-27-2011, 05:59 AM
thanks - what is this water pressure instrument called and where is actually measuring?

Byte
It is called:
Water pressure instrument.
It is measuring the waterpump pressure.
Simply install a plastic T on the pee hose, pull one hose to the instrument.
It makes you keep a check on the impeller, might tell you if thermostat valves are not functioning properly etc. Low water pressure on these engines is the main reason for regulators to fail as they loose the water cooling if block is not completely filled.
1948
1949

Byte
03-27-2011, 06:09 AM
thanks haffiman.

Collector inspector - what is your business and advise why you want to know who this transporter is?

Byte

Byte
03-28-2011, 09:27 AM
Haffiman - the dealer cannot match an exact same length of my steering cable and so i have ordered a teleflex cable around 200mm longer, instead of shorter.

Your thoughts on this?

Byte.

Byte
04-02-2011, 04:32 AM
Where to start?
Get a drill, drill some 3-4mm holes in the circular nut holding the helm to the bezel, crack the nut and the bezel will fall inside!


Hi Haffiman.

I have now acquired a brand new steering kit and ready to operate.

WRT your above comment, I need to be sure I am drilling the right nut. The attached photos are very hazy and I apologize, but lighting and camera not too flash (no pun intended). Is the nut the one shown inside this helm on these photos? It is steel and has 2 x slots at 180 degrees.

Cameron

Byte
04-02-2011, 06:12 AM
Well.

I have tried to remove this nut cannot.

It is very difficult to drill holes in this nut becuase of clearance and hardness.

I was about to drill 1 and maybe half of another.

I then tried to wack it out with a cold chisel/hammer - it is mangled a bit but but still cannot remove it.

Help

Cameron

haffiman37
04-02-2011, 07:53 AM
That is the nut!
I never said it was easy to drill out.
Another option is to take a grinder and cut away the bezel, as you have a new one in the kit.
Just remember to cover glass fiber area as flying sparks will make stains and burn marks!!

Byte
04-02-2011, 08:54 AM
thanks.

i guess the grinder is next....

Byte
04-03-2011, 11:02 AM
job done - thanks for help.

Now, time to play and install the new kit on the new helm in the new location.,....

Byte

Byte
04-04-2011, 06:30 AM
hi.

i am liaising with a local vdo rep and during my quest to enquire about new gauges to suit my 1989 johnson 110hp 2t motor:

I a wanting a temp gauge, water pressure gauge, trim/tilt and tacho.

he has asked me to verify a few things:

"Do you want electrical or mechanical temp?"

"Which water pressure is appropriate - 15psi or 30psi?"

"Trim/Tilt - what sensor are you using?"

i did not know how to answer these questions and kindly ask for your assistance with these questions...

Help?

Cameron

haffiman37
04-04-2011, 08:39 AM
Normally electrical contact sensors are used for temp, mounted on the cylinder heads. Idle temp should be around 65C, but note that full speed temp might DROP to around 50C!
You need a 30PSI gauge, look here:
http://www.v3instruments.com/marine_instruction_sheets/outboard_water_pressure.pdf
If your original trim sensor is working, use that. Is located in port side stern bracket.

Byte
04-04-2011, 09:02 AM
thanks for link and info.

would mechanical temp have any advantages over the elctrical?

woudl the mechanical temp require tapping into the water jacket - and if so where woudl the sender fit?

and wouldn't the 30psi water pressure guage be harder to read (with the smaller increments?)

what does a trim sensor look like?

Cameron

Byte
04-05-2011, 08:25 AM
hey there.

can i get the temp guage in digital format instead of analogue?

cameron

Byte
08-14-2011, 05:33 AM
Sorry to revise an oldish thread.

But the steering issues are still persisting with stiff steering.

Also, steering does not fully complete a full cycle (to starboard) but does full turn to port side.

I have finally had a chance to re-install a new helm panel, and hence new teleflex help panel kit including new cable.

Out of desperation and bought a pump gun, and pumped the 2 nipples full of grease.

After 5 mins of constant turning, it seems to be a little better, but still retains that 'heavy' feeling...

The rubber sleeve that I have attached a picture of appears worn on the inside and thinking of replacing it.

Would this sleeve impact on the smoothness of steering?

Also, I am unable to locate a part number for this sleeve. Can you help and provide this part number?

Also, there is lock pin that I am supposed to insert back into the helm (where the cable screws into). Where do I insert this pin?

Help me lighten up this steering.


Cameron

jim18611865
08-14-2011, 09:06 AM
Do you think your problem lies in the tilt pin of the motor bracket?
If yes you can eliminate it.
My engine was originally set up for "Tilt Pin Mechanical Steering" "Through the Pivot".
I changed it to go directly to the motor. You will need a transom bracket with a ball joint.

Byte
08-14-2011, 09:21 AM
wow - interesting.

I had free flowing movement before it was transported last year.

Now, I do not know what to make of this restricted movement.

The motor stops turning just after center rotating towards portside.

What/where is the tilt pin of the motor bracket?

I do not know if my engine was originally set up for "Tilt Pin Mechanical Steering" "Through the Pivot".

Cameron

haffiman37
08-14-2011, 09:38 AM
If the steering arm is disconnected from the engine, is the engine itself turning freely?

Byte
08-14-2011, 09:42 AM
I'll check.

Stand by.

Byte
08-14-2011, 09:47 AM
Just disconnected the steering arm from the engine.

I assume you are referring to the CONNECTOR ROD ASSY., Stainless steel (as per Evinrude parts Catalogue)?

The engine turns so smooth in the full range! - Heaven!

Cameron

haffiman37
08-14-2011, 09:51 AM
Then test the cable.
Put it 'center'.
If hooking back the steering arm again, engine should be center as well.
If not, you have a cable problem.

Byte
08-14-2011, 10:03 AM
Thanks.

How do i put the cable in 'center'?

I notice the long stainless steel rod at end of the cable does not fully extend out, as the engine stops at just past center on it's way to portside.

How should the steering wheel feel at the helm when steering arm is not connected - in terms of rotational ease, etc?

I linked the steering arm back again to cable with the engine in center. No change.

So, I have a cable problem.

Those 2 large nuts on the portside of the cable - one on the steering cable tube and the other on the cable - how much should they be rotated?

Any potential relationship between these 2 nuts and my cable problems?







Cameron

haffiman37
08-14-2011, 10:10 AM
The steering wheel should be 'fingertip' light.
Turn the wheel full port - then full stb and count revolutions (normally 3,5 turn).
Then back off half the turns. Then align the steering arm with the engine.
Engine should be straight.

Byte
08-14-2011, 10:42 AM
The steering wheel can be turned by 2 fingers but it does take a bit of effort and i would say it is not light - probably 'medium to a bit heavy'...

I measured the amount of revs of wheel for full cycle - around 2,3/4 turns.

I halved that figure and attempted to link up the steering arm with the cable in the center position, but the steering arm was way out and I could not link it.

There was no way I could ensure center of motor at the same time as center of cable as the steering arm was not able to coincide at the same distance/intersecting point.

Those 2 large nuts on the portside of the cable - one on the steering cable tube and the other on the cable - how much should they be rotated?

Any potential relationship between these 2 nuts and my cable problems?

Also, the steering cable tube is about 3.5" showing at the port side - is this normal?

Cameron

haffiman37
08-14-2011, 11:03 AM
The 'eye' of the cable on port side should be almost to the rubber seal on your pick when cable is all the way 'in'. The engine steering stop on the swivel bracket should be the end-stop.
Turn the engine to stop - retract the cable all the way, the arm should align with the inner hole of the engine steering arm.

Byte
08-14-2011, 06:30 PM
I can confirm the eye of the cable is almost to the rubber seal on my pick when the cable is all the way 'in'.

I do not know if the engine steering stop on the swivel bracket is the end-stop. i do not know what check or how to check.

Does 2, 3/4 turns for full turn sound right?

Those 2 large nuts on the portside of the cable - one on the steering cable tube and the other on the cable - how much should they be rotated?

Any potential relationship between these 2 nuts and my cable problems?

The steering cable tube is about 3.5" showing at the port side - is this normal?

The rubber sleeve appears worn on the inside and thinking of replacing it.

Would this sleeve impact on the smoothness of steering?

I am unable to locate a part number for this sleeve. Can you help and provide this part number?

There is lock pin that I am supposed to insert back into the helm (where the cable screws into). Where do I insert this pin?

haffiman37
08-14-2011, 10:03 PM
The rubber on the exit side (port) is just to keep grease inside and water outside, will not affect the friction.
Did you replace the bent cable or is it the 'original'?
Pull it out of the engine, keep it attached to the helm and test that it runs with almost no friction. If it gets harder and harder as you 'push' it out, replace it.
The nuts holding the tilt tube on engine should be tightened 'to no' play of the tube.
The nut on the cable holding it to the tilt tube, should be tight and no play/movement of the outer part of the cable.
Not sure about the 'pin' in the helm you are referring to, there are different types of locking mechanism of the cable in the helm. Some has a bolt going through where cable enters, locking the outer sleeve of the cable from being pushed out. (goes through the groove of the cable end piece). Some has a spring-loaded pin popping into the grove. Need type and perhaps a pick to see which type you have.

Byte
08-14-2011, 10:42 PM
I am referring to the rubber seal on starboard side that hugs (inside and outside) cable tube.

I do not know if the old cable was bent, but I replaced the whole lot in anycase - new cable, helm, etc.

I am at work so unable to 'play' atm. Will do so when I arrive home later in day.

After I remove cable from engine, and I do not feel any (or minimal) friction - what is my next step?

Cameron

haffiman37
08-14-2011, 11:11 PM
If you have cable entry from stb side of engine, it should not be any 'rubber seal' on stb side, only at exit on port. The one shown in the pic.

Byte
08-14-2011, 11:58 PM
As I stand on the ground facing the transom, I regard Port being on my Right Hand Side - Do you agree with this same interpretation ?

After I remove cable from engine, and I do not feel any (or minimal) friction - what is my next step?

haffiman37
08-15-2011, 12:03 AM
Port side is port side no matter what direction you are looking!
If sitting behind the steering wheel, port is left, stb is right.
If turning and looking towards the transom, port is right and stb is left
Some claims it is derived from the old viking ships that had the steering oar on stb side (steering board) and thus had to put the other side to the 'port'(dock) for not breaking the steering oar.

Byte
08-15-2011, 12:19 AM
You are correct. My mistake. Sorry.

After I remove cable from engine, and I do not feel any (or minimal) friction - what is my next step?

Cameron

haffiman37
08-15-2011, 12:36 AM
If removed and close to no friction, (hopefully no sharp bends ?), clean out the steering tube, and check that it is not damaged/ dented from when you remove the old cable, lubricate and put back.
Test the stroke of the cable before you remove it and when removed. It should be the same.

Byte
08-15-2011, 12:53 AM
how do i clean the tube and with what?

How do i check the internal of this tube is not dented / damaged from inside?

Byte
08-15-2011, 09:57 AM
i pulled the cable out and check it and greased it and re-inserted - still same.

i also tested the stroke of the cable before you removed it and when removed. It was not the same - shorter when installed.

thoughts?

cameron

haffiman37
08-15-2011, 10:19 AM
Your engine tilt tube might be dented at the end or damaged from when you pulled out the old cable.
What was the turns of the wheel when not installed?
Remove the rubber cap on PORT side.
It should be a mark on the steering cable where the grease has bee pulled off??

Byte
08-15-2011, 04:11 PM
hi.

how far should the steering cable tube be showing on the starboard side?

turns of the wheel when not installed is same as installed - 2, 3/4 turns.

cameron

Byte
08-15-2011, 08:54 PM
Is this rubber cap the sleeve I referred to earlier?

haffiman37
08-15-2011, 09:36 PM
Yes, the one at the end of the tilt-tube port side.

Byte
08-15-2011, 09:57 PM
how far should the steering cable tube be showing on the starboard side?

So, the number of turns of wheel is the same for when cable is connected and disconnected.

What else should I be lookign into. Almost at a loss now...

Maybe I have too much angular range towards Port??

haffiman37
08-15-2011, 10:20 PM
Are you sure that the cable is properly seated and installed in the helm?
Are you installing the link between cable and motor on the INNER hole of the engine steering arm?
Is the steering link an original type? (correct length?)
Is the cable running smooth in the engine tilt tube? Almost no difference between cable installed in the tube or free.

Byte
08-15-2011, 11:21 PM
How do i know the cable is properly seated and installed in helm?

What / where is this inner hole of the steering arm?

How can I determine if steering link is OEM and correct length?

Cable is running smooth in tilt tube.

Prior to this new install, the old steering system worked the full range from starboard to Port with the same link.

How far should the tube be showing on starboard side?

haffiman37
08-15-2011, 11:42 PM
1: The locking pin/screw goes through the slot in the end piece of the cable, cable can not be pulled out.
2: The steering arm should have at least 2 holes. Inner for the link, outer for a tie-bar when running twin engines.
3: The original normally has a part number stamped on it.
4: Good!!
5: If nothing has been changed - it should be the same in this set-up. Steering are according to international standards.
6: On PORT side, the threads should protrude about 1/2" outside the nut. At STB side, at least long enough to tighten the cable nut fully. Normally the port side nut is tightened to the end of the threads, which just gives space for the scraper nut (rubber seal) to be installed.

Byte
08-16-2011, 12:21 AM
i will provide more photos later, as I believe the starboard side of tube is out too much.

I am getting close to giving up and having to pay copious $$ for some boat dealer to fix this now.... :-((

Steering arm configuration / hoels have not changed at all - even when this steerign was workign through it's full range...

And, I do not see any nut/thread on the port side where the rubber sleeve is inserted.

Does the steering tube need to be protruding out past the engine mount on Port side?


is this thread you refer to on this steering tube?

haffiman37
08-16-2011, 02:23 AM
Have a look at this link:
http://www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1989&hp=110&model=E110TLCEM&manufacturer=Evinrude&section=Midsection
#44- loc-nut, one each side. On port side, tightened to end of threads to give room for:
#92 - wiper nut - same as your rubber seal. Sometimes just a plastic cap with o-ring inside.
The threaded part of the tube on port side is about 3/4-1" which is as far as it has to go outside the bracket.

If the tilt-tube is not correct positioned, like too far to stb, you have max turn to port (cable retracted) and far less to stb (cable extended).

Byte
08-16-2011, 08:16 AM
Great info.

I think we have determined root cause.

The tilt tube is not fitted all the way through it's range.

I cannot even see the other side of this tube (port side).

I have too far out at starboard, and I have max turn to Port and far less to stb - just like you stated.

Attached are photos...of this tube.

I do not know how this tube became where it is, and I have actually banged it in about 1.5 " already.

So, the question is, how do I ensure this tube is seen on port side? I have tried to bang it in further - and will not move.

I think the center swivel bracket and stern brackets (both Port and Stb) are not aligned - causing blockage.

And, I think I am missing those 2 thrust washers (item 46).

How to ensure alignment between these 3 brackets before I bang the tilt tube in any further?

What should I use to bang this tilt tube without damaging the thread?

Attached photos for reference...


Apologies for the muck and grease everywhere...work in progress :-)

jim18611865
08-16-2011, 08:36 AM
2975
2976
You can set it up this way remember.

haffiman37
08-16-2011, 09:02 AM
Trim down the engine so the fin is supported and the weight is offloaded.
Slightly loosen the bracket screws holding it to the transom on port side, not more than you need to give it a 'knock' to adjust. Feel with your finger from port side that there are no sharp 'edges' indicated unalignment.
Use a lead/copper mallet or a piece of wood between tube and steel mallet when knocking in.
I used to have a special tool(home made by me) looking like a giant steel bullet to guide the tube through bushings and washers with dia as outer dia of the threads. If you have a thick iron rod or socket with extension that fits into the tube from port side makes it easier to wiggle it right as well.

Byte
08-16-2011, 09:28 AM
Ok - I think I have really stuffed it now :-(


I banged too hard on the end of the tilt tube at stb side and flared/compressed the inner hole which is now too small to allow the cable end to pass through.

I was not able to get the tilt tube back to where it should be, and have the port side end of the tube showing with thread.

So, now I am really screwed!

Thoughts?

haffiman37
08-16-2011, 10:03 AM
Can you 'correct' it with a small grinding stone on a drill?
In worst case, cut off a thread or two at the end?

Byte
08-16-2011, 10:35 AM
would this thread have been compressed all the way along the entire thread or just the first few?

i have tried with a drill but there is not enough clearance to achieve a horizontal action for the drill bit.

If I do fix this problem, and i manage to extract the other end of the tilt tube at port side, do u think this travel range issue will be fixed?

haffiman37
08-16-2011, 10:46 AM
Test the thread with the nut. If that works, ok.
Use a Dremel or whatever, it may not be too bad.
Perhaps you may take out the whole tube, bring it to a workshop that may hone or drill it back again?
Get it sorted out and your steering will be OK.

Byte
08-16-2011, 06:22 PM
thanks.

I will go and buy a dremel today and play tonight.

It is a shame i do not have sufficient clearance to get a drill horizontal in this area.

I will report back later on findings.

Cameron

Byte
08-22-2011, 11:45 AM
update - i damaged one of the thrust washers, and still cannot get that tube in.

so, i have decided to buy brand new tube, washers, everything - and then install all new stuff once they arrive.

obviously, i will need to remove the motor. hints/tips on the best/safest method?

Cameron

Byte
08-22-2011, 11:55 AM
I to have a special tool(home made by me) looking like a giant steel bullet to guide the tube through bushings and washers with dia as outer dia of the threads. If yoIf you have a thick iron rod or socket with extension that fits into the tube from port side makes it easier to wiggle it right as well.

so the outer diameter of the bullet is the same as the outer diameter of the tube?

cameron

haffiman37
08-22-2011, 12:06 PM
It went into the tube about 1", then the outer dia was as mentioned. However a long socket that fits into the tube works OK if you are careful.
No need to completely remove the engine, but it helps being able to take the load off by using a chain hoist or similar and just remove one of the mounting brackets, preferably port side.
Insert the tube from stb side, through the washers and swivel bracket, put on the port side washer and slide on the bracket.
Tighten the end-nuts, but not too hard!!!!

Byte
08-22-2011, 07:08 PM
thanks.

i will keep u updated in due course!

Cameron

Byte
09-01-2011, 09:43 AM
Update -

I received the new parts recently and tried to do the job.

I managed to jack the motor up via that jockey wheel method and then removed the center tube.

The motor has dropped a little, and now I cannot raise it again because the tube is out. The motor is tied to the boat.

When I try to jack motor up the motor just slides out away from transom - on the blocks supporting the skeg, and does not rise.

I don't know what to do now.

The clearance between the bottom of the top member of an engine hoist and the flywheel is none, as it is about 70mm too short (to comfortably go over top of flywheel)...

I cannot obtain any higher hoist anywhere..

Help!

Cameron

haffiman37
09-02-2011, 11:30 AM
Post a pick of your problems, there are always solutions!!

Byte
09-02-2011, 11:50 AM
stand by.

I will post some pics in 10 mins of the tube area.....

the hoist is coming tomorrow (in around 14 hours).

Byte
09-02-2011, 12:01 PM
pics as promised...

sorry for the grease and muck everywhere...

Byte
09-02-2011, 12:23 PM
also, are you able to advise on the PCD of the 3 threaded holes on the top of the flywheel for this motor?

Cameron

haffiman37
09-02-2011, 11:22 PM
I see two options.
1: Loosen both brackets from the transom.
2: A crowbar between transom and the swivel bracket and you should be able to 'lift' the engine in position.

Byte
09-03-2011, 02:12 AM
Thanks.

What is the thread of the 3 holes on the flywheel?

Cameron

haffiman37
09-03-2011, 04:11 AM
Sorry, but do not remember the thread sizes. You should however be able to find a screw somewhere on your engine that fits and you may use as reference. If to be used together with puller or lifting eye, get 10-8 screws!

Byte
09-03-2011, 04:16 AM
Thanks.

I had everythign ready to do the job and I realise I do not have the right thread for these holes.

I had a special lug made up to suit these holes.

What size is 10-8 screws?

Cameron

racerone
09-03-2011, 08:15 AM
The holes are 5/16-fine thread.

Byte
09-03-2011, 05:32 PM
thanks - is that UNF?

Byte
09-04-2011, 07:48 AM
Success -

As soon as I found out what thread those bolts were, I drove down to the lcoal hardware shop and got some.

This allowed me to raise the motor via the flywheel - which really helped!! Thank you!

I managed to fit the new tube, but have not connected up steering yet, as I have a query regarding the lock nuts at either end of the tube.

There is not enough thread on the tube to fit Items 92 and 44 - as per assy shown

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/BR...ION/parts.html (http://www.boats.net/parts/search/BRP/JOHNSON/1989/J110TXCEM/MIDSECTION/parts.html)

I do not know if there is a mistake on the assy or I am missing something???

Any thoughts?

Cameron

haffiman37
09-04-2011, 10:22 AM
Tighten 92 on port side until it bottoms the threaded part of the tube (the short thread)
44 on port side is only a plastic scraper nut to keep the grease inside the tube and prevent water entering.
On stb side of the tube (long thread), tighten the nut 44 until you have no side play between the brackets and swivel bracket. That should leave at least 1" +++ free thread for the steering cable nut.
When steering cable has been installed, then put on the wiper nut on port side on whatever threads are left so it seals around the steering cable tube sticking out.

Byte
09-09-2011, 10:08 AM
hey there.

thanks for replying and apologise for late response. i am currently in the scrub with very limited connectivity and have been for many days...

when i return home in a week or 2, i will keep playing with these nuts to get it right.

one thing i need to mention is that i have already installed 44 on both sides, and tried to undo them, but cannot because i cannot lock one side down to undo the other side.

and, there are hardly any thread remaining on port side after 44 is installed, and i cannot see how 92 fits on to any thread.

cameron
siwsne

haffiman37
09-09-2011, 10:29 AM
Drop by a hardware store and get two 'thin' std nuts that fits on the threads.
Put both on the long thread side (stb) and counter torque all at the end. Then you should be able to loosen/adjust the two 44 nuts.
The correct 92 should have the same thread as 44, but is most often just a plastic nut/cap.

Byte
10-04-2011, 06:59 PM
Just wanted to say - a big thank you.

I was able to rectify this issues I was having with these nuts and I have now completed this job.

The steering is smoother and now I can concentrate on getting the boat in the water and using it :)

Cameron

haffiman37
10-04-2011, 09:18 PM
Waiting for final pics when all is ready to go.

Byte
10-14-2011, 08:12 AM
no worries - will definitely post them when ready.

Now, with everything back together, a flat spot exists in the steering at the start of any time I start to turn the wheel, for about 20-30 degrees rotation.

I have to turn the wheel without any resistance this amount of rotation before I feel any resistance and then begin to turn the motor with the wheel.

I want to get rid of this delay/lag in steering.

THoughts?


Cameron

Byte
10-14-2011, 02:48 PM
what would cause this free movement in the wheel?

cameron

haffiman37
10-15-2011, 12:30 AM
You may not have tightened the cable nut at the engine enough making a play in the outer cable part.
How much play before cable starts to react?

Byte
10-15-2011, 03:46 AM
I have not torqued up that nut yet. Could that be why?

The wheel turns about 15 degrees before the cable starts to react. I will soon post a short video showing this play.

Cameron

Byte
10-15-2011, 04:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RztdYBcVGXI


Here is that video I had promised....


Cameron

haffiman37
10-15-2011, 04:55 AM
Check if the outer part of the steering cable is moving at the engine side. If nut not tightened, it might be some mm play.

Byte
10-15-2011, 05:10 AM
just checked - outer part of steering cable at engine side is not moving at all.

cameron

kimcrwbr1
10-15-2011, 05:26 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ichQI8jUTz8

haffiman37
10-15-2011, 06:48 AM
just checked - outer part of steering cable at engine side is not moving at all.

cameron
Is you new cable and helm from same manufacturer?
Loosen the cable from helm, pull out 1" so you see the inner cable,or set the steering in center and watch the part of cable sticking out from the helm, test again and see if the play is in the helm or cable. A slight play is normal, but unless you have a helm with 4,5 turns from full stb to full port it looks a bit too much.

Byte
10-15-2011, 07:09 AM
Yes new cable and helm is from Teleflex.

I don't quite understand your second sentence, but I will play and report back.



Cameron

PS - Kimcrwbr1 - what is the significance of that link you posted??

haffiman37
10-15-2011, 07:23 AM
Yes new cable and helm is from Teleflex.

I don't quite understand your second sentence, but I will play and report back.

Cameron

PS - Kimcrwbr1 - what is the significance of that link you posted??

Just that in a mechanical steering, the more turns you have from full stb to full port, the bigger will the wheel play often be.
The helms are not exactly Swiss watches when it comes to tolerances.

Byte
10-15-2011, 07:24 AM
Did you watch that video, and if so, let me know your thoughts on that amount of play shown... ?

If the steerign wheel nut is not fully tightened, woudl that cause this amount of play?

Cameron

haffiman37
10-15-2011, 08:22 AM
The total play is a sum of all small plays.
It may be in the helm, it might be in the cable itself and other connections to the engine.
Just see to that all is a s tight as possible, then live with it.