19'93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

I have a 1993, 225 Ocean Pro that has run very well up until last week. I am able to go soft up to about 4500 rpm's, anything over that and it bogs down. If I hammer it out of the whole shot, it just bogs down immediately. It starts and idles fine. New filters this year. It ran fine the first 3 times I had it out this year. Two weekends ago, I noticed it bog a little in the Ocean, but the rest of the day it ran fine. Now, every time I hammer it to plane off, it bogs down. Please Help me!

I boat in Moriches Bay, Long Island NY

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

The usual cause of that problem is either the carburetors are fouled somewhat OR the timer base under the flywheel is sticking.

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

Today, I took off the Air Intake Box and noticed the choke closed in all six carbs. When I pushed in the key, I heard the click and they didn't move, still choked. Are the choke fins supposed to be closed and open according to the throttle? Meaning as you throttle up, the choke fins open in relation to how far its throttled? And in neutral, idling, they are always closed?

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

Choke butterflies should always be open unless the key is pushed in.

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

So when you look in the carb, you shouldn't see the choke butterflies unless the key is pushed in? I do, so how can I fix that? When I push the throttle forward, they open at a rate so they are completly open when the throttle is maxed. Could this cause the problem I'm having?

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

joereeves said:

Choke butterflies should always be open unless the key is pushed in.

Click to expand...

Huh? Joe, no coffee yet today?

The engine has NO choke butterflies.
What you are looking at are the throttle plates, deep in the throat of each carb. They absolutely do, and must, open and close with the action of the throttle. Completely closed at idle, and flat open horizontal at WOT.
All should operate together in complete perfect synchronization.

The clicking you are hearing is the primer solenoid operating. It is an electrically operated fuel valve that allows extra gas to be introduced into each cylinder's intake to enrich the mixture for cold starting...just like a choke. It sounds like all is working the way you are describing it.

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

I vote fuel restriction. What happens when you pump the primer bulb, does the problem go away at all?

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

I tried it once but it was hard to do. I was the only person on the boat, but I don't think it helped. Even if I hit the bulb, wouldn't that just fill the float? I don't see it shooting gas in the throat of the carb when squeeze the ball, so does that really help? I might try to spray gas down the throats while my buddy is driving. Today I de-carbed it and put new plugs, hopefully will try it again tomorrow. If this doesn't work, it could get expensive.

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

Daselbee..... Actually I wasn't even thinking about his engine (93 225)..... was just thinking about a electric/manual choke setup and answering his question. It never dawned on me that he didn't know a choke butterfly from a throttle butterfly. Sometimes I stay up too late and go brain dead.

Smitair..... this (below) is what replaces the electric/manual choke setup on your engine.

(Fuel Primer Solenoid Function)
(J. Reeves)

The RED lever...... The normal operating/running position is to have that red lever positioned over top of the solenoid and aimed at the other end of the solenoid, gently turned to its stop. This is the normal/automatic mode position. Pushing the key in opens the valve within the solenoid allowing fuel to pass thru it in order to prime and start the engine. Looking upon this solenoid as a electric choke results in a better understanding of it.

Having that red lever turned in the opposite direction, facing away from the solenoid, allows fuel to flow thru it to the crankcase area. One would only turn the red lever to this position in a case where the battery might go dead and the engine had to be started via the rope pull method. Look upon putting the red lever in this position as moving a choke lever on a choke equipped engine to the full closed position. Either one would supply fuel to the crankcase/engine for starting purposes BUT if left in that position while running would flood the engine.

The later model primer solenoids are equipped with a schrader valve, used for attaching a pressurized can of fogging oil etc, available at your local dealership with complete instructions.

Pumping the fuel primer bulb up hard fills the carburetor float chambers of course, but that process also applies fuel pressure to the primer solenoid.
The two small hoses leading from the primer solenoid branch off via tees to each fuel manifold section that would feed fuel to the individual cylinders.
Pushing the key in activates the primer solenoid to allow fuel to flow thru it to the intake manifold passageways. Cranking the engine over causes the fuel pump to engage which in turn sends fuel pulses to the primer solenoid via the 3/8" fuel hose.
Some engines incorporates the "Fast Start" feature which automatically advances the spark electronically so no advance of the throttle is required for starting.
Engines that do not have the "Fast Start" feature will be required to have the throttle advanced slightly.
Starting procedure: pump fuel bulb up hard, crank engine and push the key in at the same time. When the engine fires/starts, release the key so that it falls back to the run position.
Bottom line..... Look upon the primer solenoid as an electric choke.

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

So when the throttle plates are open, fuel is sucked into the engine, is this the concept of them? When they are closed, there isn't as much suction through the throats, which is why its idling? Regardless, it appears they are working correctly. Joe when you said the timer base is sticking, what did you mean? Physically, it looks like that piece is stationary, I didn't know what to troubleshoot if it's sticking.
Thank you so much for helping me and teaching me more about my engine!

I have read quite a bit on these carbs, but I'm confused about a Adjustable Screw and a Fixed Orfice. My guess is you can adjust the screw to change the amount of air, and you cannot change the fixed orfice. My question about this is why would they put a fixed orfice when they could make it adjustable?

Another question: if I resort to a mechanic, what do you think about a mobile mechanic, one that will come to my house instead of me bringing it to the dealer?

Again, thank you guys so much!

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

Throttle butterflies.... yes, that's the general idea of thier function. The idea of fixed brass jets (fixed orifice) is so that boaters can't screw up their engine(s) by misadjusting the carburetors.

On older engines, he slow and high speed was entirely adjustable, BUT if somone moved/turned either adjustable needle valve say 1/4 turn (sometimes less), the engine would not run properly if it was possible to even start it.

Mobile mechanics = That depends on whether the mechanic actually knows what he's doing or not. Ask for references. There were many times when I would personally run over to a friends house to do "mobile work"..... the word "mobile" does not cast a bad shadow, it depends on the person.

Timer base..... look under the flywheel. You'll see a part there that is connected by a linkage to the vertical throttle arm..... a unit that moves when you advance the throttle lever. That's the timer base.

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

"I vote fuel restriction. What happens when you pump the primer bulb, does the problem go away at all?"

just a quick question…I have to agree with the possibility of fuel restriction issues and the possibility of timer base sticking. However if there is s fuel restriction, the fuel restriction alarm should be going off right???

Does anybody thinks a motor could have fuel restriction either via bad fuel filters or lines, but be small enough to “starve” the motor from fuel, but not trigger the fuel restriction alarm???

I always wonder about that...

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

shut, your motor might no even be starving for fuel at WOT, it could be actually getting too much fuel and be flooding causing it to bog down as mine did...

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

How do I fix a stuck timer base?

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

Before we get into that..... inspect and find out if it sticks or not, as follows.

Locate the vertical throttle arm on the engine. It's the vertical arm that the throttle cable is attached to. The top of that arm has a linkage that attaches to the timer base so that the timer base moves with the vertical throttle arm as the throttle is increased.

With the engine NOT running, spin the propeller and put the engine into forward gear. Now, while you are closely watching the timer base, have someone slowly advance the throttle lever from the idle position all the way to the full throttle position. The time base should smoothly glide from the idle (retard) position all the way up to its full spark advance position which is up against the rubber stop on the end of a screw head.

This (above) will tell you if there's any sticking or not.

NOTE.... DO NOT EVER loosen and move that spark advance stop screw that has the rubber stop cap unless you know exactly what you're doing.

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

Thanks Joe, I checked the timer base and it is moving until it hits the rubber stop. While I was doing that, I was paying attention to the fuel filter under the cowling. The filter is not staying full of fuel. When I pump he bulb, it fills up, then after idling for a bit, it slowly empties to about half way. Does this point to the fuel pump?

Also, I have the air silencer off, and noticed that every now and then a mist of gas is flung out the back of the carbs. No pattern and not a whole lot, just a simple drop of mist here and there. I read something about the reeds being bad if this happens, would it spray gas out the back of the carbs if they were bad, or just a little?

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

The fuel filter function you speak of is normal. They do not stay full and this does not hinder the operation of the engine's fuel setup..... looks weird I know but that's how they work.

If a reed was really bad, not seating or broken..... fuel mixture and crankcase pressure would really back out of that area with ever downward travel of the related piston. However, it is possible that one of the leaf valves is simply not sealing properly when seated. I've encountered this from time to time.... my cure was to simply flip the leaf over.

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

My next guess is the VRO pump? This is both the fuel and oil pump in one correct? How would I troubleshoot this?

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

Usually if the engine runs properly when pumping the fuel primer bulb (acting as a manual fuel pump), but it does not when you quit pumping that bulb..... that indicates a failing fuel pump, VRO, whatever normally transfers the fuel.

Re: '93, 225 Bogs Down Please Help!

I have had this happen twice to my 1995 200. Both times it was the Power Pack. At a certain rpm, can't remember but around 4000 it was bogging down, like running out of gas. Back off a bit and it runs fine. Hate to tell you a 200 dollar problem but if all else fails try it.