2006 BF15 stalling

Hi to everyone. Finally found a site that might help me out. My BF15 has been stalling at low speed, started last season. It went out of warranty last March. Was in the shop two years ago for a recall on the fuel mixing chamber. Anyway, it starts fine, but after 20 seconds it stalls quickly. I looked at both filters, tank and motor. Seemed clean. One fellow mentioned that there is a screw on the carb that adjust the low speed. He said 50% of motors need to be tweeked after the break-in period. I do not have a shop manual for this motor yet. I will not pull the carb until a have one. Is there something I can add to clean the carb in the meantime? I have been using Stabil since the start. Also, I was surprised to not find a cartridge inside the motor's filter. Is that standard? Dont know if they switched the filter when that recall was performed. Any ideas? I know the motor needs to warm up at the start. It stalls when I have been trolling too. Came with Denso plugs. I have been using NGK's too. Have not had the boat in the water this year because I want to solve this first. Thanks, Bruce.

Bruce,

The one's I work on are a couple of years older but I think they are the same.

If, when you say, "fuel mixing chamber", you are talking about a rubberized, black, small tank like looking thing, attached at the oil dipstick tube, then I would be very interested in the recall you mention.

The local Honda dealer has told me about a recall on that device but he can't seem to (or won't) obtain any info about performing it. My shop manual calls it a "fuel chamber" but I find water in those frequently. They seem to act as a fuel/water separator. It's one of the first things I address when I get a stalling problem on one of the small rental fleet I maintain. I have learned to take it off and shake every last drop of fluid out of it before proceeding.

The sad thing is though, when I find water in those, the carburetor usually needs to be cleaned too. They are pretty simple but you really need to understand that there are a couple of things you will want on hand before beginning.

I agree that you should get the shop manual but it doesn't tell the whole story about cleaning those carbs. You will need a new idle mixture set screw if you want to clean out that passage as you are forced to break the old one to remove it. You will also want to replace the tiny O-ring at the top of the "jet set" tube as they cause problems if they don't seal. I usually just replace that tube as it isn't all that expensive and it comes with the new oring.

If you have an accelerator pump, (I'm not sure which all models do) replace that piston and spring too. If the bore that the accellerator pump fits into is gouged up or if the check ball at the inlet to the accellerator pump charging port has come loose, I advise replacing the float chamber.

Here's where I have to tell you that I work on 8hp and 20hp and the carburetors look identical. I'm sure yours looks like those too. One problem I've run into is that Honda doesn't list an accelerator pump for the 8hp but mine have them. The only difference between the 8 and the 20 accelerator pump seems to be the length of the pushrod. I have resorted to ordering 20hp accelerator pump kits and cutting the pushrod down or just re-using the old one. I don't know if that will be a problem for you or if you might have a more competent parts guy than I do.

(Can you shed any light on this Mike??)


The accelerator pump circuit on these is critical to proper runability. The passages at the bottom of the float chamber (or bowl) are also critical and are prone to clogging up. I even had a new float chamber right out of the package drive me crazy when it had a small piece of debris stuck in the vacume break passage at the bottom of the bowl. flush those "hallways" out with WD-40 with a straw in the spray tip.

While you have the bowl off, study the accelerator pump circuit until you locate the passage in the main body of the carb that is fed when the pump is actuated. It leads to a small brass tube that extends into the front of the venturi air passage (or "throat) of the carb. use a can of WD-40 or carb cleaner with it's little red straw to make sure that gas will squirt out of that tube. I prop the throttle plate open with a pocket screwdriver in the linkage arm so that I can clean that tube. When you spray into the passage, the liquid should shoot out of there and travel a good three to four feet out the back of the carb. Careful! Don't spray yourself or your neighbor's Corvette! If it doesn't shoot out of there across the driveway, you need to "back flush" it by inserting the plastic straw on the can into the carb throat, past the throttle plate, and carefully spray into that tiny little orifice in the end of that little brass tube. It can take several trys but usually works great. I haven't had one yet that I couldn't unclog but I know that if I do, I will probably need to replace the carb. Those engines will not run well if that passage is clogged.

Those little fuel filters don't have anything in them but a relatively course little screen. Like you, I was surprised when I took one out and cut it open to see that it doesn't seem to really capture anything. Just there for the big stuff I guess.

If you get her running sweet again, I strongly suggest that you drain the carb each and every trip and pull that "fuel chamber" every now and again and shake it dry. Water minerals that drop out of solution and get stuck in the passages is the bane of these carbs.

Good luck and tell me all you know about that recall if you will.

Sorry, it's called a fuel chamber. Winter of 2008 it was changed out. www.hondamarine.com still has it up on their recall list. I looked under the hood after it was completed and the only thing I noticed different was along the right side, a black plastic cover was new. All these things you mentioned are waaay over my head, w/o the shop manual. Never thought I'd have to delve into this with a Honda, as everyone said they'd go forever. I have not had the boat out on the water as of yet this season. Not in a big rush and I wanted to see if I could solve this first. The stalling doesnt happed all the time. At the dock before I pull away it always does as it is not warmed up yet. If it doesnt stall there I wonder what is wrong with it. Thanks for all the info. Will let you know how things progress.

BALJ-1301618 is the number off the motor. Would the engine serial number help or is needed for parts?

Try running a strong mixture of SeaFoam in you gas and if you can eliminate the source of the water. I run my kicker through a Racor filter from the main boat tank so don't have that problem. i had 1993 15 hp Honda that had at least 4000 hours on and was still going strong when I sold it.

The fuel chamber was a recall because there were some units that leaked. Thus a potential safety issue. I looked yours up and it should be ok now.

You may want to do as gss036 suggests and run your motor with a strong mixture of sea foam. You probably have a passage that is partially plugged. I say partially, since it appears that sometimes it is ok and sometimes not.

These motors must also warm up before you put them under a load. Generally, that means about 2 or 3 minutes.

If it runs ok once it is warm and it accelerates good, then your accelerator pump is probably ok. Otherwise, it would fall on its face if you goosed it while underway.

You should drain your carburator into a glass jar and check what your fuel looks like. If it has water in it, it will separate quickly and you will see the water as a bottom layer in the jar.

The drain comes out of the black plastic hole next to the water indicator hole. That is, if the dealer reconnected the tubing when they did the recall for you. Directions for draining the carb is in the "Storage" section of your owner's manual.

Mike

Sorry, I didn't mean to frag you with tech-no-speak. When you said you'd pull the carb when you got a manual, I assumed you had done some of that before. You DO NOW HAVE though a cleaning procedure that will get your carb properly clean if the Sea-Foam fails to do the trick. Pass it on to your mechanic.

And, You DID make an excellent choice when you bought a HONDA. I work on rental boats that get any and all abuse and misuse that wind, waves, weather and humans can dish out. The Honda is the only motor in our fleet of approximately 200 motors, of various brands, that holds up and doesn't break. I have lobbied management to ONLY buy Honda. They cost a bit more but they are well worth it.

But, they, like anything mechanical or female (I don't believe I just said that) are not purrrrrrfect. The Honda carb does not like contaminated fuel...AT ALL!

Repeat after me: drain that carb, drain that carb, drain that carb, drain tha...You get the picture. Put unused fuel in your car and burn it instead of storing it. When you have that fuel tank empty, look in there and check for debris. You will undoubtedly find little flakes and "what are theys?" in there.

Where did they come from??? I didn't put that in there! Think about all the hands and tanks that gas has been in before you pumped it out of the ground at your local filling station. It comes contaminated. Keep that in mind and your Honda will love you long time sailor.

I did drain off some gas the other day mainly to flush out the carb. Drained it into a container that had other sh*t in it so i did not look at the quality of the gas. But I will do it again. Now when it ran last night, only a trickle of water dribbled out when in neutral, then stopped flowing altogether when I put it in forward. Mind you I still have it in the driveway with the motor in a barrel of water. I panicked and shut down the motor after a couple of seconds. The screens were clean the other day as i took them off and inspected them. How soon might an impeller go bad or seize?? Thanks.

If it hasn't had a water pump since you got it, it's well overdue. I would say that about any outboard too. It is not a good idea to run more than 2 or 3 seasons without an impeller change although I've seen them go longer. The ones that I see that have run for several years and then the owner notices no pee stream are usually in pieces and some of those pieces can cause problems when they get lodged in the cooling system. The impeller will start to break down after a couple of years and I've seen them still pumping a pee stream but when I go in to change the pump I find them sometimes with only 1 complete vane left with a couple of partial and the rest missing. A new pump is cheap insurance against problems on the water.

Also, the fact that you say the water stopped coming out the pee hole when you put it forward might indicate you may not have enough water in your "test tank" or that you are using too small a can. When you engage the prop, it sets up a vortice in the water and can pull the water level away from the pickup screen. This will starve the pump for a water supply and quickly destroy the impeller. Take a look at that and change your procedure or the size of your trash can if that is the case.

Honda sells a comprehensive waterpump repair kit that comes with seal, gasket, water tube connector, impeller, housing, impeller, wear plate and drive key. It costs a few dollars more but is well worth it. The one thing it does not come with (and this gripes me) is a little curved, slotted, gasket that they call a water grommet. It fits on a little gusset that sits just ahead of the water pump housing on the lower end. Buy that and replace it when you do the pump. It helps keep out sand and debris when you are in shallow water.

Trying to save a buck here could cause you trouble. I reused an impeller drive key once and did not look at it carefully. They wear on the thrust side and this one was worn enough that it slipped out of the slot on the shaft and spun inside the impeller, ruining it.

And remember! Boating can be fun! Just not today;~)

Might that part be call a 'water pump housing grommet'? The term 'water grommet' came up empty. A couple of other questions. Which manual do you suggest for m to purchase? I have seen Helms for $52 and others from a Google search for $20 and $30. I am thinking or returning the motor to the basement. How much time/surgery is changing out the impeller and housing going to take? If I dont finish the job one day, inside I can just walk away, while outside, I would have to tidy up abit and cover the motor. Thanks.

Yes, I believe that it is "water pump housing grommet". Sorry I don't have the documents with me when I am at home.

Don't waste your money on anything other than the Helms shop manual. I think most guys on this site will tell you the same. The Seloc and Clymer books try to cover too many models and years and, as a result, are just not very good. If you ever decide to sell your motor, the good shop manual can be a full price offering to a buyer.

I hesitate to advise you on how long a waterpump replacement will take. I can do one in about 30 minutes but I've done many. I don't even remember how long my first one took but I guarentee that it took a while. I'd say take your sweet time to get it done correctly even if it takes three days. Don't worry, it won't.

You have to take the lower unit off anyway and it will be easy to take just that part inside if you don't finish. Tip: take your prop off before beginning. It will make it a little easier and will give you the opportunity to inspect the thrust washer and shaft seal for wear. Fishing line kills propshaft seals so get in the habit of going in there often to make sure you haven't picked any up. The seal side of your thrust washer started off smooth and flat. If you see any grooves in it, replace it. I routinely replace them because I have found that if left on too long, they can get a little "step" in them and can be a booger to get off of the prop shaft. I've had to carefully cut some off with a Dremel tool and carbide bit. Quite a chore.

There is a bit of a "muscle learning curve" and holding your tongue just right to set the impeller in the housing and then to slide it down over the shaft to properly engage the drive key. I have a pretty good technique for holding the key with a small screwdriver while sliding the pump assembly down over it but it still can take me two or four trys to get it. You'll see. Make sure you have some marine grease to slather up that impeller and the housing and wear plate so she starts up "wet". If you forget to grease, the impeller will be immediately damaged. Also, grease your prop shaft splines and thrust washer before going back on with the prop.

Hope I didn't freak you out again, just trying to help.

Thanks or the heads up on the Helms book. Been years since I have had to do anything with an impeller. Dad's old 6 hp Johnson used up a few. With a manual I'll tackle most jobs, not a truck tranny though. This water grommet was not shown in the exploded view, but was listed. I'll get one. Is the more elabrate water pump kit ( housing, bolts, gaskets... really important vs the simpler package?

Also, is there a bolt prep to buy for when I retighten? Some specialty thread locker that I should order at the same time, or is said item usually at a West Marine etc? Thanks.

Here's the way I view the complete kit vs. the "buffet" of parts. You know that your last pump worked faithfully for a few years. If you do the "Full Monty" on your replacement, you can pretty much expect the same. However, If you put a new impeller on an old, worn friction surface, you immediately set up whatever wear pattern is there on your new impeller. It's done all the time, but just doesn't make any sense to me. If you do decide to save a buck though, make sure that you use a new drive key.

If you buy the complete waterpump kit, it comes with new bolts and the threads are pre-treated. Do not over tighten them. I use an anti-sieze compound on the housing bolts that I do re-use but that may be just me. Don't buy any of that stuff at West Marine as they typically can't offer anything of better quality than a hardware store and it is twice as expensive.

Who needs the manual anyways!!! Lower unit is off today! Impeller looked like new. No fins/vanes missing. Drive key looked good too. Will still replace it all Tuesday though. Could the thermostat be the cause of the water flow? How ofter for the 'stat change? Thanks to EVERYONE who had the patience to answer this non- mechanic's questions! Bruce

Way to go!

While the lower unit is off, pull the thermostat and backflush your motor from the thermostat housing.

The waterflow problem is probably just debris in your water indicator tube like jgmo said a few posts back.

If you do not see water flowing out during the backflush, take some compressed air and blow back through the tube and flush again. That will probably clear it up. If you do not have compressed air, a flexible wire up the tube may be all you need.

Mike

Bruce, I recommend 2 years on the pump and 3 years on the thermostat as a good interval. But, if you changed the thermostat every four years and the pump every three, you are probably doing more than most.

You will see when you remove the impeller from it's housing that it is "not like new" after having been in there so long. It will, at a very minimum, have taken a "set" where the arms are beginning to get hard and will stay in the curved configuration of being in that housing. Whereas the new impeller is soft and pliable and all arms are straight.

If you carefully inspect the drive key, and compare it to a new one, you should see the wear that takes place on the thrust side where the back of it contacts the verticle shaft. Doesn't look like much but it can be critical. I would never reuse one again.

If you decide to replace the thermostat, replace the flush valve and the cooling system anode that is is in that cavity as well. The anode does not come with a new screw so order one of those separately.

And no, I do not own stock in Honda parts.

Parts arrived and it's back together. Now it's purring like a Honda....should. Even took it on a long run out on the lake tonight, 9 miles round trip. Call me crazy. I did flush/drain the carb a few times, but have yet to use Sea Foam. I will get the tank flushed out this summer, and start using the marine Stabil. Here's something I want to share/ask. The former local Honda dealer says I can leave it out on the boat during our winter here in west Michigan. It can get to zero here. He says no harm will come to the Honda. Make sure the water is out of it, that is all. I did that the winter before last, but the other years we take it off the boat, and store it in the basement. What does everyone think of that?

I worked on the Illinois Central Rail Road in my youth and I remember those winters! Seems like it got a lot colder than 0 on some days.

I don't see why the Honda couldn't take being left on the boat but if I could lift it and carry it, I'd keep it in the basement.

I remember those freezing rains with the resultant ice storms that would topple trees. If the motor isn't at least covered while tilted up, I would be afraid of water getting in around the prop holder and freezing in there and possibly causing some damage. Water expands when it freezes and has been known to break rocks.

Signed: happy to be in SoCal during the winter. (although not in this economy)

Lake Michigan keeps us warmer than inland areas and those west of the Lake. Honda is about 105 lbs and it takes both of us to carry it. Not fun on the steps. Hopefully I wont be posting for awhile!!!

The main thing is to be sure that the water is drained from the motor. Storing it vertically, without tilting it up, should allow it to drain and prevent additional water from accumulating in the exhaust area of the lower unit.

Also, be sure to follow the instructions for preparing the motor for storage in the back of your owner's manual.

Mike

Rubber gaskets, hoses and the like. Wont the cold shorten the life expenctency of those items? Every fall, on midwest fishing forums, questions arise every year on winterizing the motors. Nesting the motors inside garbage cans, with a small heater or trouble light on all winter, some have done it. I leave the batteries plugged in, but as long as we are able to lift it off the boat, we will store it indoors. Mine is a BF15D. Does the 'D' pertain to the 4th year the model has been mfr'd? Also, the full model is BF15D6SHSA. What does the rest mean?

Just like your car...it can sit outside all winter, but is better if you keep it in a garage.

The D refers to the design model of the 15. There were two 15A and 15D.

BF15D6SHSA

The BF stands for Honda Outboard
The 15 of course is the Horsepower
The 6 refers to 2006 - year of manufacture
The first S is short shaft
The H is tiller steering
The second S is electric start
The A means its destination was America

This is generally listing in the front of your owner's manual.

Mike