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Running boats indoors

holinwtr

Regular Contributor
Has anybody ever had experienc

Has anybody ever had experience or heard of running a boat inside. I've got mine in the garage and would like to start it up and run it about once a month over the winter. It's an old boat and I know when you let old things sit they get old even faster. Now I wouldn't run it for long because of the fumes and I would have the garage door open. I was thinking of cutting down a trash can and putting it under the leg with water in it. That way it could draw water and spit it back in the trash can. Maybe run it for a minute or two.
 
"It will just build up moistur

"It will just build up moisture inside the block unless the oil gets hot enough to burn it off. Does it get below 32 F.? I would just leave that engine alone until spring if you winterized it. No need to run it once a month, especially in the garage."
 
The garage stays 65 F. I did

The garage stays 65 F. I did not winterize it. I didn't think I had to since its not out in the elemants. What should I do to keep it running smooth in the spring?
 
"change the oil in the motor a

"change the oil in the motor and the drive , new element for the fuel water separator. Check timing maybe.

Got points, i always sand paper them a little, clean the battery terminals.

Might want to pull the plugs and give a look see."
 
"[b]"The garage stays 65 F

""The garage stays 65 F. I did not winterize it. I didn't think I had to since its not out in the elemants. What should I do to keep it running smooth in the spring?"

Ayuh,... If by chance the Power goes out,...
It'll get Real old, real Quick..."
 
"There is no need to do anythi

"There is no need to do anything different over the winter if you are keeping it in your garage as far as running it or any thing like that.

If you can NOT guarentee that the garage will stay above freezing then at the very least (((drain the block and the manifold of its water)))).

If you want to run it over the winter then attach the ear muffs and water and start it up. then just drain the block and manifolds when done.

Also in the spring do a complete tune up.

Spring stuff.
{{{{{ points, rotor, condenser, plugs, set point dwell exactly and timing exactly as spec says.
Remove out drive and grease the ujoints, all other grease fittings, gimbal bearing,

drain outdrive and pressure check and if ok then refill with gear lube.}}}}}"
 
"maybe he doesn't know how

"maybe he doesn't know how to winterize it.

Drain the block, and the manifold poke the holes with a stiff wire to make sure the rust didn't clog the holes.

Put the drains back in add a little antifreeze and make sure the drive is all the way down and your done 15 minutes tops."
 
"If you did not put fuel prese

"If you did not put fuel preservative in the fuel, do it and drive the boat/trailer a few miles to mix the fuel. Run the engine 15 mins. I use SeaFoam."
 
"I guess i am the only one don

"I guess i am the only one don't believe in that gas chit.

Any one open up a small motor carb after a while cause it won't start with that chit run thru it?

Stay-bil HAH, should say on the bottle stay away."
 
Yes you are the only one!!!!!!

Yes you are the only one!!!!!!!!!!

Funny how virtually anyone who stores gas for more than 2-3 months uses the stuff or some form or brand.

10 - 15 years ago you could get away with out it. with today`s fuels that are oxegenated and other additives they tend to deteriorate in a couple of months depending on where you live and proximaty to major cities. The further away the better the quality tends to be.
 
""Stay-bil HAH, should say

""Stay-bil HAH, should say on the bottle stay away."

E-10 in Winter

Recommendations on Storing Ethanol-Enhanced Gasoline

For better or for worse, a shotgun wedding took place this past spring between boat owners and ethanol-enhanced gasoline. Everyone wore black. Now, almost four months into the honeymoon, it seems that at least some of the warnings of matrimonial acrimony may have been premature.

The key word is some. The fiasco with deteriorating fiberglass tanks (Seaworthy January and April 2006) has certainly been painful for owners of many Bertrams, Hatterases, and other, typically high-end, boats. As of this past September, BoatU.S. Technical Services has documented over 70 reports of failures, including leaking tanks and wrecked engines, from both coasts and Hawaii. In all cases, tanks had to be replaced.

But what about the widespread reports of clogged filters that boat owners on Long Island Sound experienced when ethanol was introduced there two years ago? Why does there appear to have been fewer complaints of clogged filters when ethanol began arriving last spring at pumps throughout much of the rest of the country?

John McKnight at the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) speculates the answer has to do with preparation: Boat owners in 2006 were better prepared for the arrival of ethanol than boat owners on Long Island Sound were in the spring of 2004. That’s not to say that boat owners in other parts of the country haven’t had plenty of problems this year, but there is now a widespread consensus on how best to cope (see “Making the Transition to Ethanol”).

Avoiding Phase Separation
Another, perhaps larger, test will come this winter when boat owners prepare their boats for seasonal lay-up. One of the unfortunate properties of ethanol is its ability to attract and absorb water. Ethanol-enhanced gasoline can absorb roughly 10 times as much water as MTBE and still burn safely through the engine. But if ethanol becomes saturated, which can happen when it sits for long periods, the ethanol separates from the gasoline, forming two separate solutions. This is called phase separation and it’s bad news for the engine. An engine won’t run on the (water-soaked) ethanol solution, which sinks to the bottom of the tank and is highly corrosive.

There is no quick fix. When MTBE becomes saturated with water, it remains chemically bonded to the gasoline—MTBE doesn’t phase separate—and a water separator can eliminate the excess moisture. With ethanol-enhanced gasoline, however, once phase separation occurs, additives and water separators can’t help; the only remedy is to have gasoline/ethanol/water pumped from the tank.

While all of this may sound discouraging to anyone planning to lay up their boat with ethanol in the tanks over the winter, the good news is that E-10 has been a fact of life in certain areas of the Midwest for several years and there have been relatively few problems. Seaworthy talked to several marina operators, surveyors and boat owners in the Chicago area who had the same reaction to ethanol: “It’s no big deal.”

No big deal? How can E-10, which attracts moisture and can fall apart, be expected to survive the winter? With any fuel that will be sitting for a long time, it is important to add stabilizer—an antioxidant—to extend the life of the fuel. (E-10 and gasoline with MTBE have the same shelf-life—roughly a year.) What a stabilizer won’t do, however, is prevent phase separation. Just how you do that is subject to some debate. Several sources, including one prominent engine manufacturer, recommend running the tank down to almost empty and then adding stabilizer. The following spring, the tank can be refilled with fresh gasoline. Lew Gibbs, a senior engineering consultant at Chevron, worries that leaving a few gallons of gasoline might attract enough condensation to cause phase separation. If that were to happen, the highly corrosive ethanol/water mixture would settle to the bottom of the tank and would remain there even after the fresh fuel was added in the spring.

Gibbs said his first choice would be to completely empty the tank when the boat is laid up and then refill it the following spring with fresh gasoline. No ethanol = no ethanol-related problems. Unfortunately, completely emptying a built-in tank safely is nearly impossible. His next choice, one that’s more practical, is to top off the tank to 95% full (to allow for expansion). A tank that’s almost full reduces the flow of air into and out of the vent, which reduces condensation on tank walls. Any condensation that does form will be absorbed by the gasoline. (Note that the National Fire Protection Association [NFPA] also requires tanks to be topped off to minimize explosive vapors.)

Gibbs said the worst choice, which was confirmed by marina owners in the Midwest, is to leave the tank half-full over the winter. Jerry Metzger, the general manager of Chicago Harbor’s nine marinas, said phase separation problems typically occurred when boats had been stored over the winter with tanks that were a quarter to half full. The tanks breathe more and attract larger amounts of moisture. Metzger says boaters in the area have learned to fill the tanks before the boat is laid up for the winter.

Note, however, that phase separation can occur anytime E-10 sits for a long time. On Long Island Sound, which has been using ethanol-enhanced gasoline for the past couple of seasons, Mitch Kramer at TowBoatU.S. Oyster Bay said they haven’t had any problems with their own boats, which are used every day. Kramer says the problems now on Long Island Sound seem to be with boats that are used infrequently. Perhaps because of high fuel prices, some owners don’t use their boats as often and are also less likely to top off their tanks. Half-empty tanks that sit for long periods are more likely to attract moisture, which causes phase separation. The key: Use your boat!

One final note: DON’T try to plug up the vent to prevent moist air from entering the tank. Without room to expand, the additional pressure could rupture fuel system components.

Preventing Phase Separation Do’s and Don’t’s

DO

* Add Stabilizer
* Top off the tank (to about 95% full)
* Use your boat frequently during the season so that gasoline doesn’t go stale in the tank

DON’T

* Leave the boat’s tanks partially filled
* Let the boat sit idle for months over the summer.

Making the Transition to Ethanol

In the summer of 2003, marina owners in New York and Connecticut were warned by distributors to prepare for the arrival of ethanol-enhanced gasoline: “It has been determined that ethanol fuels may cause sediments present in underground storage tanks to mix with the fuel and, as a result, plug filters, and potentially plug customer vehicle fuel filters. Additionally, the presence of tank water bottoms during normal operation may reduce the oxygenate content and octane rating below product specifications. Therefore, it is absolutely imperative [distributor’s emphasis ] that each tank be properly cleaned prior to the delivery of ethanol-enhanced gasoline. ...”

Unfortunately, the same warnings that were extended to marina and gas station owners were not extended to boat owners, and it took everyone a while to make the connection between clogged filters and the arrival of ethanol-enhanced gasoline. Ethanol doesn’t mix well with the old MTBE blends, and it is also a solvent that cleans off the gunk that forms over time in gasoline tanks.

At first, only a few of the Long Island boats seemed to be affected, but as the season progressed, more and more boat owners began reporting problems with clogged filters. After receiving numerous complaints, one general manager at a marina in Connecticut said she thought the marina must be pumping bad fuel and had it tested. The gas in the marina’s tanks was fine. It wasn’t until well into the 2004 boating season that anyone realized the same properties of ethanol that affect gasoline in a massive underground storage tank might also affect small boat tanks.

By the time E-10 began to be distributed throughout much of the rest of the country this past April, the shroud of mystery had been lifted. In the past two years, just about every major boating publication had published stories letting readers know that ethanol was coming and giving advice on how to cope with E-10. Marina managers are also now aware that the same precautions they took with their own storage tanks should also be taken by boat owners with boat tanks. Marinas like Hartges Yacht Yard in Galesville, Maryland have posted warnings at fuel docks advising boat owners to run their tanks down to almost empty before refilling with ethanol, as well as advising them to carry extra filters. At Burr Brothers in Marion, Massachusetts, customers are offered a “kit” that includes spare 10-micron filters and a bucket to safely contain the old filters. In another case, a gasoline distributor, Volta Oil in Plymouth, Massachusetts, has gone directly to boat owners with a brochure advising how to deal with clogged filters and avoid phase separation.

The result is that, unlike in Long Island Sound, more boat owners around the country have been warned about the change to ethanol and have a better idea how to cope with problems. Chris Adams at TowBoatU.S. Falmouth in Massachusetts said his own boats had all the same symptoms that were experienced on Long Island Sound — clogged filters and sputtering engines — that resulted from ethanol cleaning gunk off the inside of tanks. At one point, the problems were so bad he debated installing new tanks. Over the course of the summer, the problems gradually began to subside as the clogging residue inside the tanks lessened. The longer the stuff has been around, the more likely that the worst is over."
 
"I gotta be honest with you gl

"I gotta be honest with you gl115, I skimmed over that post and didn't read it all. Funny you should mention about ethanol absorbing water and sinking to the bottom of the tank because this summer my boat started running like chit and it turned out that I had to remove and clean the tank to get it running good again.

My garage will definetly be about 65 all winter even if the power goes out. We have a whole house generator and its an ICF house. (Insulating Concrete Form). Super energy efficient. I am a general contractor and we specialize in those type houses. It gives you about an R-50 exterior wall, 6 inches thick solid concrete.

Anyway back to boats. I'm not worried about the block cracking. I know all about that from first hand experience. When we got the free boat we where completely ignorant and let the thing sit out in sub-freezing weather all winter. Guess what.... cracked block.

I just wondered if running the motor periodically would help but it sounds like its not that big of a deal. I will put some more fuel in the tank and put some Sta-bil in it.

Thanks fellas"
 
Ethanol makes very little sens

Ethanol makes very little sense as an automotive fuel and even less sense when used as a marine fuel.
 
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