TLDI ReliabilityDurability and ownership cost

"I'm looking at a used 200

"I'm looking at a used 2007 40hp TLDI but reluctant to proceed as the early model 50 hp TLDI I owned a few years ago left me stranded several times.
1. Has the water cooling for the air pump in the 2007 40hp TLDI been redesigned? Background: In the early model TLDI the air pump was cooled by the same water that "pees" out of the cowling. Saltwater plugged mine(common problem on many engines)which in turn blocked the cooling water to the air pump causing it to seize. The factory rep told me they were changing the design on the higher hp engines but not the 50.
2. I know the older carbureted 2 strokes are bullet proof but with complexity of the TLDI, shop labor over $100/hr, and eye watering parts cost I'm looking for a super durable engine that will require minimal shop visits. Is the TLDI a good choice at this point?"

"The pumps are still raw water

"The pumps are still raw water cooled and do not fail when an engine is flushed...Like it is supposed to be. If flushing is not possible then the TLDI 40/50 would not be a great choice when compared to an older carburetor designed engine. I would say that if you had a problem before and you follow the same maintenance routine now, you would have a great likelihood of have having the same problem again. They did change a nipple design from plastic to metal that now prevents people from damaging the pump by melting the previous plastic nipple.

The TLDI may not be the best choice for your application."

"Actually my application is no

"Actually my application is no different from most other recreational users that operate in salt water. I rarely run WOT except to get on plane and I always flush with muffs after use. The air pump failure I had occurred during a day's outing after motoring at cruising speed for an hour, then slow speed operation for 15 minutes and a shutdown waiting for the locks to open. Engine wouldn't start due to air pump seizure.

Interesting that this is appears to be an isolated incident yet according the factory head of service reps Tohatsu did some redesign to the larger TLDI engines.

BTW, the head of U.S. field service gave me direct support with parts and instructions. He couldn't have been more helpful.

I would still be interested in the operating costs/overall reliability of the 40hp TLDI compared to say the Tohatsu 30hp EFI engine? When I dug into the TLDI service manual I was surprised that the "much simpler 2 stroke" isn’t so simple afterall. It has a lot of peripherals - air pump, air injectors, oil metering, itty bitty oil lines with itty bitty check valves and such that 4 strokes don't have.

Thanks, I'll take your advice and keep looking."

"There really aren't any s

"There really aren't any studies of any kind available that weigh "reliability" as such. Tohatsu, like all the other manufacturers, just looks at the failure rate for an individual component. Depending on the part you might see a failure rate of one out of 20,000 on an item that never fails to one out of 200 or whatever for a part that is either subject to wear, a defect or less than perfect design. In the case of your air compressor, you would have the environmental factor of salt, the maintenance issue of flushing, the design imperfection of a plastic nipple versus the improved metal nipple and last, but not least, luck

Any one or combination thereof could(in your case did) give you a failure. I've never seen an air pump fail on one in Florida, but there have been a few cases of some failing in really cold salt environments and I'm sure a couple have failed in the last ten years that I don't know about.

Modern(modern tech) outboards have sacrificed some of that "reliability" from 40 years ago to meet increasing environmental regulations and consumer driven performance enhancements. Four-stroke EFI or two-stroke DFI are both going to be less than perfect in a salt environment. I wish we all had access to the 3rd world engines that are more forgiving, but......The Goberment knows what is best for us."

This thread is very interestin

This thread is very interesting to me as I am considering a 50 or 70 TLDI that would be used in Alaskan saltwater. Regarding flushing with fresh water...How soon does this need to be done to be effective? No doubt immediately would be best but means to do so are not always available and can be as much as a day away.

"Flushing any engine is advise

"Flushing any engine is advised as soon as possible. Once the salt dries it will leave a residue even if it is flushed at a later date....Unless you use a product designed to remove old salt like Salt Away or use the field expedient method of a vinegar douche. Oddly enough Alaskans seem to be the 9 out of ten people who have problems with 2-stroke DFI engines. In virtually every case that I am personally familiar with, all failures have been the result of consumer malfunction rather than a legitimate complaint. I'm sure some are issues related to true defect...I just haven't heard of anyone up there that wasn't personally at fault. The weird thing is that that all of Canada, and Washington to Maine seems to be trouble free. Just Alaska. Weird huh?"

Is it necessary to flush my en

Is it necessary to flush my engine after every use if only used in fresh water ?

"...I just haven't heard o

"...I just haven't heard of anyone up there that wasn't personally at fault. The weird thing is that that all of Canada, and Washington to Maine seems to be trouble free. Just Alaska. Weird huh?

Weird, indeed! Honest, TG, we're not all brothers,sisters and first cousins up here. Could you share some of he Alaskan user induced failures? To clarify my ? about flushing: I was thinking in terms of being in the salt for 3-4 day excursions at the most. The engine would be flushed within a few hours of being put back on the trailer (meaning as soon as I get home). I've had a 6hp Tohatsu for several years and it still hasn't had its first hiccup. I flush and run the fuel dry after each use. I change the engine and lower unit oil and spark plug yearly. I have never fogged it but store it indoors when not in use. This good experience prompts me to look first at Tohatsu now that I need a larger outboard...But if the TLDI technology is unusually finnicky, I'd be better off with a 4 stroke that has 20 plus years of troublshooting behind it. Thanks in advance for your input."

"I'm not inferring that pe

"I'm not inferring that people in Alaska are inbredBut, it is a fact that there is a disproportionate share of failure there. The reason(s)why have been a source of conjecture. Personally I believe that it is due to people attempting to do their own repair and maintenance as well as the general geographic and environmental conditions. I know of 5 TLDI failures that have occurred there in the last two years. In each case the operator was doing their own maintenance(incorrectly). Everything from the wrong spark plugs to incorrectly installing a water pump, using bad fuel, incorrect propping, water in fuel, collision damage, incorrectly wiring boat systems into the engine system, etc.

Keep in mind the failure rate of the TLDI system is so low as to defy belief so any failure is subject to great scrutiny by Tohatsu itself. The original A model was replaced by the B model after two years...So we have had the B model for seven virtually trouble free years. It's hard to make an improvement to a design that does not give problems Of course there is the occasional problem that is not the fault of the operator. Defects in parts can occur at anytime. It's just rare.

As I said before, in your case, I think you might be better served by getting a different engine brand. Having had a problem once, if you had a problem again you would be convinced that the Tohatsu itself was at fault. Switching into a different brand and having a problem with that one, would make feel a lot better As four-strokes are just plain awful I would suggest a Evinrude or a Mercury in a DFI 2-stroke. Current four-stroke production is new in design as they have switched from carburetors to EFI and four-strokes have never been trouble free performers in cold weather climates."

You might have seen my post re

You might have seen my post regarding '2009 tohatsu tldi dead' from around April.
My engine failed again after it being rebuilt. I paid for it. It failed again in August.
Its gone back again to tohatsu UK and this time they can find no reason as to why it has worn all the cyclinders or that I did anything wrong.
Its a write off.
HAVE I GOTTEN A REPLACEMENT.
NO NO NO
Tohatsu now want the engine to go back to the factory in Japan while my boat lies idle.
150 hours use since last January.
Is there any other engine makers who would treat there customers like this????

I think not

I might add for the true horro

I might add for the true horror of this story just search'2009 tohatsu tldi dead'in the forums from March/April.

'there customers' should also read 'their customers' in my last post.

as i've said before if you think this is a joke i'll post the serial numbers etc up here for this engine

"In no particular order.

&#

"In no particular order.

"Is there any other engine makers who would treat there customers like this????"

You haven't had any contact with Tohatsu. You are dealing with an independent distributor in Britain....And all manufacturers act the exact same way to a warranty claim if THEY get one.

"HAVE I GOTTEN A REPLACEMENT."

You are not entitled to a replacement. No one would normally get a replacement as manufacturers replace whatever needs to be replaced or repaired on the engine itself rather than gifting you with a replacement product.

"You might have seen my post regarding '2009 tohatsu tldi dead' from around April.
My engine failed again after it being rebuilt. I paid for it. It failed again in August.
Its gone back again to tohatsu UK and this time they can find no reason as to why it has worn all the cyclinders or that I did anything wrong."

It's clear to me that they are incompetent. It should be clear to you as you are certain you did nothing wrong. Your solution is to sue the dealer and distributor, based on what you have posted.

I understand your need to vent, but in the end you need to do something about it. The problem is not in the product, it's not in Tohatsu the company....It's in the people who rigged and installed the engine and then were incapable of diagnosing and repairing it. Look all over the Internet. Have you found anyone else with the same problem?...No, you have not. That should tell you that your case is unique. What makes you unique? The people who put their hands on the engine AFTER it left Tohatsu. I would urge you to refocus your attention at those people rather than blaming Tohatsu itself."

The fact this engine has broke

The fact this engine has broken down twice is unacceptable in 150 hrs of use.
The fact that Tohatsu UK have demonstrated to Japan that I did nothing wrong entitles me to a replacement.
What if I was using this engine to try and make a living from fishing as many people are. Am I expected to be unemployed for months on end while they ship this engine around the world.
Not good enough

"You don't get it. You hav

"You don't get it. You have to sue the dealer and or the distributor. Anything else is masturbation at this point. Japan is not involved in this process so drive down to your local courthouse and file. I hope you win, but you need to understand that the real world is not quite the way you imagine it to be. Your NOT entitled to a replacement. Read your warranty statement or any other manufacturers for that matter. Repair is all you are entitled to. If they can't repair it, well then and only then would you be entitled to either a refund or replacement. That would come come out of the distributor in the U.K., so have at them. By the account you have given in your posts here they have lied to you consistently so I don't see how you could lose. If there is anything I can do to help, just let me know."