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E10 fuel

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Rich the crabber

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"Does anyone know for sure wha

"Does anyone know for sure what problems may or may not exist with using this E10 fuel? Here's the confusing ambiguous stuff I've heard.

1. The fuel only lasts 90 days. Great for winter storage, huh.

2. The fuel seperates. Into what I don't know.

3. The fuel destroys fiberglass tanks and the disolved fiberglass reforms on your engine valves.

4. The fuel only destroys fiberglass tanks if you fill it fully and it gets into the top where the fiberglass was cut for the lid. Avoid the problem by filling tanks to 90%.

5. Winter store with full tanks. Why, so you have more seperated fuel in the spring to get rid of?

6. Winter store with minimal fuel.

7. Add stabilizer. What good does that do if the fuel lasts only 90 days?

8. Only some fiberglass tanks will be affected.

Help please. Thankyou."
 
"From what I've been readi

"From what I've been reading, you're accurate except for point # 4--the fill level is irrelevant since the ethanol dissolves the fiberglass regardless of level.

Frankly, to stick the marine public with this stuff--and without a public hearing--should be the source of a huge lawsuit. But, you can't sue the government, so... If not the dopes that mandated air bags that killed children and short people would have been sued out of existence.

Getting back to the gasahol mess, if you have a fiberglass tank--you're screwed. My old marina (I moved) replaced a bunch of them this year.

If you don't have an f-glas tank, it appears that the situation isn't as bad as advertised. I have mid-western friends that have been using hte 'evil fuel' for several winters now, and all they do it stabilize it at 90 % full and drain hte water separators several times in the Spring.

Here's what I did: I trucked in 20 gallons of 'normal' gas and ran the gasahol down far as I dared. I also used Star-Tron stabilzer that uses enzemes (recommended by Boat US).

We'll see in a few months how it worked out.

Jeff"
 
"Severe damage to some fibergl

"Severe damage to some fiberglass glass tanks has been absolutely documented. The ethanol mixtures dissolve the some resins, eroding the resin out of the glass fibers leaving the the tanks weaken and with leaks. Those with existing tanks should be observant of a black gooy substance in and around fuel systems."
 
Correct. Several revealing ar

Correct. Several revealing articles on this in the Boat US insurance magazine (a darn good magazine).

Jeff
 
"If this is actually true, wha

"If this is actually true, what happens to all of the marinas and gas stations with fiberglass storage tanks? (I passed a new one being installed today)

This sounds a whole lot like the "Pepsi will take the paint off off your car" hysteria from years past.

I know what the media tells me but I'm not convinced till I see it for myself. One of my customers is a chemist for Ashland Chemical, probably one of the nations leading resin producers. He tells me it's BS. I guess time will tell."
 
"I have wondered about whether

"I have wondered about whether ethanol causes this in fiberglass, too. I made a workbench for my garage and coated the MDF with polyester resin. Nothing has done anything to it, other than get it wet. This means denatured alcohol, gas, oils, mineral spirits, naptha, acetone, lacquer thinner or carb cleaner (NAPA, in the blue can, not the nice stuff). There was a tiny hole and some oil get into the MDF but nothing has affected the resin at all. Acetone thins poly and epoxy resins and ethanol is not as strong as them. It never seemed to make sense that if the ethanol affects these resins, why would they use it for underground tanks.

Maybe there's something else in the resin that makes it different from normal, maybe mixing with gas causes a reaction that changes the chemistry enough to affect the resins. I don't know, I'm not a chemist but my bench is totally unaffected by any of the above fluids."
 
"Rick, Jim, I know what you ar

"Rick, Jim, I know what you are saying but the effect on SOME resins is an absolute fact. The Coast Guard Auxilliary resently published an article on the subject. Those who have fiberglass fuel tanks are well advised to monitor the situation."
 
The commentary about fiberglas

The commentary about fiberglass tanks is all valid... especially on earlier boats. My boat has aluminum tanks. I've stored my tanks full (of e10 crap) for two winters and not had problems. I did add stabilizer.
 
"David,

Can you back u

"David,

Can you back up your statement? Seems the Coast guard Auxiliary isn't so sure anymore. Did you once have fiberglass tanks that got destroyed?"
 
"I talked to someone at a shop

"I talked to someone at a shop that does nothing but work on automotive fuel systems and he said that withough stabilzer, the reformulated gas starts to go bad in about 20 days. This was back when MTBE was added but here in Wisconsin, ethanol was already used, too. The alcohol draws moisture from the air and it mixes in with the gas/ethanol blend- to a point. Then, when it becomes saturated, it starts to settle out as a cloudy "water/alcohol phase". This is a bad thing to run through the motor, especially under heavy load. I may still have a Mercruiser training video on fuel systems/quality. If I do, I'll post any pertinent info that hasn't been covered.

I have seen boats with fairly old E10 and the fuel sample was clear when I did fuel quality tests, even after letting it sit for hours or days. OTOH, I have taken lots of samples that were "fresh gas" and there was a lot of water in them. Taking a sample is easy enough but most people don't do this. Boats that sit with low levels of fuel are most at risk because there's more air in the tank and therefore, more moisture that can condense on the cold tank surfaces. Less air, less moisture. Stabilize the gas, take a periodic fuel sample and make sure the fuel is used faster than it can go bad.

I wonder is anyone has tried using a dessicant-filled cartridge in their fuel line. Might be worth a shot."
 
Jim N.

How do you take

Jim N.

How do you take fuel samples? What do you look for? What do you do with it?
 
"If it is injected, there'

"If it is injected, there's usually a Shrader valve in the fuel rail. My fuel pressure gauge screws onto that, I start the motor and use the bleeder valve on the gauge to collect some of the gas in a clean, clear bottle. I let it sit for a while to see if any water or other debris settles out. You know what clean gas looks like, right? If it doesn't look like that, I find out why. If it needs to go, it's usually fairly obvious. On a non-injected motor, I siphon the gas out of the tank.

In a lot of cases where someone complains about driveabilty, fuel quality and quantity are my first concerns unless spark is intermittent. If I'm checking the fuel pressure, I have the gauge on it anyway.

If the gas is good, I pour it back into the tank. If it's bad, I dispose of it properly. If it's just debris, I'll filter is first and see if it's useable."
 
"You can also use a water sepa

"You can also use a water separator to collect a sample.

I have old Perkos on mine htat I drain into a glass jar. At one time, I've seen a 1/2 inch of water settle at the bottom, along with tablespoons of crud.


Jeff"
 
How do i know if i have a fibe

How do i know if i have a fiberglass tank or not.I have a 03 22' wellcraft coastal i/o 220 mercrusier. I bought the boat but didn't have a manual.
 
"Carl- I seriously doubt that

"Carl- I seriously doubt that your tank is fiberglass but if you can see it, it won't look like that. It's probably an off-white translucent plastic."
 
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