What Should I Do Over the winter

"As the boating season starts

"As the boating season starts to wind down, I am looking for some suggestions as to what I should do to my 454 Crusader's.
The engines are Fresh Water cooled, and have about 535 hrs. on them. There is rust showing on the risers and elbows. I have had this 1991 Four Winns for 7 years and have not replaced any risers, elbows, manifolds, etc... The boat runs strong, and cruises at 25 mph at 2700 rpm's, but the starboard engine was running a little bit warmer than usual this summer.
Do I replace everything(risers, elbows, manifolds) and if so, what can I expect to pay in the New England area? Also, can anybody give me the name of a certified Crusader mechanic in RI or nearby? Thanks. Looking forward to your replies."

"Mike,
I wouldn't think y

"Mike,
I wouldn't think your manifolds, risers or elbows would cause your temp concerns. I would focus on fresh coolant first (if not recently replaced), then thermostats, then raw water pump, then U-Cooler and then main heat exchanger. If your engines are FWC then your manifolds should be fine since they are cooled by the anti-freeze mix. Also if you know for a fact that your risers and elbows are original, then I would definitely replace your risers and elbows since they only see the raw water."

Change your risers and elbows

Change your risers and elbows today. If they have not bee changed in 7 years you are on very borrowed time.
Your temp increase is probably due to chunks of rust inhibiting the flow of raw (salt) water as well as a worn impellar on the raw water side.

"I'll second what Rich_P s

"I'll second what Rich_P said about the risers & elbows.

The internet can tell you what the replacement parts go for. the aftermarket people usually make the OEM parts and they've been around for a while so I'd go that route.

As far as labor, that is driven by how tight your engine room has become and how long the old risers and elbows have been on. If its open and nothing is 'frozen' it could be done in under 4 hous. I'd say it'd probably take a full day."

"Whoa up on changing those ris

"Whoa up on changing those risers and elbows. If your engine has fresh water going through the elbows they will last a really long time. And if you boat in fresh water, they can last 15 years even with raw water cooling.

A word on rust at the junction of risers/ elbows/ manifolds: This is hard to stop since the gasket surface is unpainted. (I'm gonna paint the gasket surfaces one day and see how that works out.) The bare metal under the outside edge of the gasket rusts, and that rust migrates along UNDER the nicely painted surfaces until they look ugly. No way around it (except, possibly, the above.)

My point is, don't assume the parts are rusty out just because you see some innocent rust spots.

Jeff"

"Boat has been in saltwater fo

"Boat has been in saltwater for at least the past 7 years, and some time before that. The mechanic at the marina removed the thermostat due to the somewhat higher temperature on the starboard engine, so something is up. I do not recall when the impellers were last changed, so will do that this year. The engine compartment is tight, so everything takes more time when working on this boat. I have several trips planned for next summer, and want to get the best thing done so I don't have problems when it is splashed next Spring. Keep the suggestions coming!!!!!!!"

"Michael,

I am shocked to s

"Michael,

I am shocked to see that your boat takes more time to work on..I thought that only happened on my boat. The typical 2 hour job takes me 3-5 hours...a weekend cleanup takes 4 days. Removing the thermostat was probably not the best idea he had. Additionally I found some unusual impeller damage on my boat as well. One set of impellers lasted 3 years, another less than 3 months. I know there are times when I see MUD being churned up in the slip when backing in or running in some very shallow but navigable water (18" below the keel). I am sure this shortens the life of some parts significantly as well. Seven years is a bit o' time. I know IF IT IS AT ALL POSSIBLE THAT IT WAS like my boat, the maintenance mine probably received in any seven year segment was minimal. If it started...it was run. That is not to say all is fine with your situation. I did have substantial breakdown of cast iron in the elbows and manifolds which led to some big problems. Since you asked in your starting post about cost...Mine with a complete valve job was about $2200.00 per engine and I did all of it myself except the machining.

JEFF: When I redid the manifold and elbows 2 years ago with the BFH and all that stuff, I used all new Crusader parts and the surfaces were painted. I had actually seen a yellow sheet in the boxes that INSISTED you remove the paint form the gasketed surfaces or risk premature part failure.

SO, it was a PAIN in the butt doing it and I did remove paint until I got to the elbows... I was beaten up by the whole project and wanted to hear it run SO...I did not remove the paint from the elbows where the meet at the stainless steel block off plate on the starboard engine... I have no more weeping rust lines on one engine than I do on the other. I also stay on top of it by washing things down and painting the surfaces as needed BUT I specifically did not touch those joints to see exactly what you described"

"All I can say is the raw wate

"All I can say is the raw water running through the risers and elbows moves pretty fast and abundently. I cannot see how a significant amount of rust and scale could accumulate if you run the boat fairly frequently. The majority of riser/elbow failures I have seen and experienced have almost all been rusting and failure of the inner liner, resulting in raw water entering your engine through the exhaust manifolds and valves. This then leads to compression lock when you go start the engine. This is why I suggested that the temperature problem is not caused by the riser and elbows but by most likely thermostat or U-Cooler. You should definetly change out your risers and elbows during the off season for many other reasons. If your thermostats and pumps are okay then I would look at your U-cooler for a restriction as the next step. By the way, riser and elbows are not that difficult to change yourself. It took me about 6 hrs per engine on my boat. I had tight quarters to work in."

"Thanks, Al. Keep an eye on t

"Thanks, Al. Keep an eye on those 'paint test' locations of yours and let me know, okay? I think we have a winner here!

Jeff"

Cast iron (the material ri

Cast iron (the material risers and elbows are made from) rusts in a peculiar way whereby thin sheets of the raw material literally peel off from the castings. These sheets can and will partially occlude internal water passages leading to a reduction in raw water flow and an increase in engine temperature.

"Michael, Paul at Bay Marina o

"Michael, Paul at Bay Marina on West Shore Rd in Warwick RI is a Crusader dealer and a top-notch diagnostician. He can save you a lot of time, effort, and money. I have a slip there just so I don't have to miss another 2 weeks of boating while someone tries to figure out a problem that Paul can take care of in a day or two."

"Hi Michael, I had the same is

"Hi Michael, I had the same issue last year with my 1995 crusader 454,s. The port motor started to run alot hotter than the starboard. I opened the heat exchanger only to find it pretty clogged with Zinc material. I cleaned it and the temp came down a little. I went to the U cooler and it was clogged also. I purchased a new one and installed it in about 2 hours. I also had the heat exchanger acid cleaned. My engines are 14 years old with all original exuast system and they run at 165 degrees all day long. As long as you do some maintanence on the raw water side and fresh water side those real expensive parts will last for a while. this boat has been in saltwater its entire life."