DAMN BOAT

"I am not too inpressed today!

"I am not too inpressed today!!! I got a new boat couple of weeks ago and right now it has 11 hours on it. The last few times I been out I thought I was hearing a rumble but figured it was a new boat and nothing could be wrong yet and it was probably the water on the bottom making noise. Well today we went out and the noise was more pronounced,it starts at approx 2900-3000 rpms and is a very loud rough rumble. I opened the engine housing and it is coming from the transom area. Once you go below 2900 rpms you cant hear it but if you speed up and slow down you can easily hear the noise start and stop. I am guessing it is the gimbal bearing but i am not too familar with marine engines. When I bought the boat it didn't look like the bearing was greased.....no sign of a grease gun ever touching the grease nipple. So just to be safe I pumped about 15 pumps of my grease in there to make sure it was greased before we went out. It was a medium speed grease...cat advanced 3 moly. Anyone got any ideas of what else it could be other than the bearing?My engine is a 3.0 mercruiser."

"A used new boat? or a Brand n

"A used new boat? or a Brand new Boat? If new,it should be under warranty,if used,could be what you suspect and also universal.Go thru a check list before taking it apart. Get a Repair manual to get familiar with your 3.0"

It is a brand new 2009 searay

It is a brand new 2009 searay 175 sport. It is under warranty for 2 years(powertrain) and we bought the extended mercruiser warranty for an additional 5 years.

"Is the boat a brand new one f

"Is the boat a brand new one from a dealership? If so then you should take it in for warranty purposes.

If the noise is coming from that area, then it could very well be the gimble bearing.

15 pumps from a grease gun is too much grease though, bearings should not have more then 3 or 4 pumps, as too much grease can lead to premature bearing failure.

What happens is that too much grease can blow out seals, hold heat in, causeing the grease to harden, and leading to bearing failure from no grease getting to the bearing.

I was a maintenance electrician for 40 yrs, and I have seen many a electric motor fail from too much grease in the bearings. In the work shops I attended on bearings, that was one of the most talked about things taught not to do, over grease the bearings on any application.

It is very tempting to over grease bearings, and many people do, a little will go a long way.

However if this is a new boat then over greaseing may not be the cause of any bearing problems at this time, unless water got into it, then it wouldn't take long for the bearing to fail."

"No seals on the gimbal bearin

"No seals on the gimbal bearing MIKE G.

It is a open roller bearing just so ya know......and 15 shots is no problem as it will just pour out into the bellows or bildge!

If no grease was ever put into bearing and run dry, It is shot!!

guy hear at work just went thru the same issue on a new boat.

This is a case of marina rigging overlooked greasing the beraing before delibvery!"

"Kghost, yes it is an open rol

"Kghost, yes it is an open roller, but there is a grease seal there in the gimbal houseing for the bearing assy., this keeps it from doing just that, from pouring out into the bildge and keep water out of the bearing! If there were no seals the grease would not stay in the bearing assy!

The 15 shots may not be a problem here, but it is still too much grease in most cases! I do understand that it may not have been greased at the factory, however he did say he put grease in before he ran it! Now if water got in, then you would have a problem, grease or no grease!


,"

"The seal does not seal the be

"The seal does not seal the bearing itself. It seals to the drive shaft.

It actually does very little if anything as seen by many as if water gets into bildge area it WILL flow straight thru the bearing, seal or no seal.

At least I have never seen that seal do much of anything, maybe just wishful thinking on the part of merc.

The bearing in question if it is the source of the noise ( hard to tell without hearing it first hand) ( gimbal bearings typically growl at slow speed when turning left or right) so we are assuming it is the bearing.

If it is the source of the noise, the marina who rigged the boat should have run it before selling it/after rigging it. The lack of grease could have caused the issue then.

If the marina is not on the water then they most likely did not lake test it and only ran it on a hose or in a tank. therefore did not/would not have heard any funny noises.

I personally shoot ten or so shots of grease into EVERY gimbal bearing I service."

"Bottom line is, Bring it back

"Bottom line is, Bring it back to marina and let them worry about it. Warrenty is just for this reason so you the baot owner does not have to worry about it. Also try to make sure they LAKE TEST it. A must for any boat to be serviced or after service."

Thank you guys for all the inf

Thank you guys for all the info....just called to book it in for service. Disappointing though.....thats why we bought a new boat in the first place....so we didn't have to worry about anything for a little while.

"True, BOTTOM LINE that it is

"True, BOTTOM LINE that it is a warranty issue, and should be taken back where it was Bought.

Though the grease seal does not appear to serve much of a purpose and it is a grease seal, it does and too much grease in most bearings can be an issue, maybe not in this particular application.

I don't claim to be an expert on marine drives, but each to his on and if that is what one chooses to do, to over grease, that's OK.

Some cases you may get away with it for a while, without problems. Im not trying to tell anyone what to do or not do.

Just give some insight, that a lot of people may not understand about grease and bearings, that to much can be just as harmful as not enough!

Don't take my word for it, talk to some people that specialize in bearings, like TEMPKI or a Bearing Service Co.

Kghost, no offence intended, on your views. Hope you take none!}"

"No offense taken,

Just bee

"No offense taken,

Just been working on em for a long time..........going on 20 years.......so I am only talking from direct experience especially with the gimbal bearing.

So you know this used to be a off the shelf bearing you could purchase from any truck/auto store. ($25-$35)(the breaing only) but Mercury stopped that from happening a few years ago.

I believe it is a "something" LINK spherical open roller bearing and is what is/was commonly used as a drive shaft carrier bearing on two piece drive shafts in auto's and trucks."

"I wouldn't touch that boa

"I wouldn't touch that boat if it's under warranty. Any tampering and they will try and worm out of covering it. You were very smart to get the extended warranty. Good luck in getting it fixed before the summer is over.

Michael, electric motors are quite different from boat motors and outdrives. I have never ever heard of over greasing anything on a boat. They are designed to be greased constantly and regularly. I over grease mine all the time until grease is spewing out of somewhere. Making sure every cavity is completely full of grease lessens the possibility of water intrusion, especially salt water which will ruin a bearing very quickly. my boat is 27 years old and still running strong. Kghost is one of the most experienced guys on this board I would listen to what his experiences have taught him."

"PS

Thanks for the vote of

"PS

Thanks for the vote of confidence............I do have limitations........NO EFI!!!No major engine stuff!

My expertise/experience is in the electrical and outdrive issues. (including transome, steering, ignitions (thunderbolt, point) carbs and shifting.

I stay away of engine overhauls or internal issues. I am no motor biulder so I leave it to the ones who know best."

"PugetSounder, I realize elect

"PugetSounder, I realize electric motors or different then marine motor applications, however the princibles would apply in most cases, maybe not all.

As I stated earlier, maybe in most cases it is not an issue, but one should be aware that too much grease in some situations can be a problem.

Seals being one of them, no matter what the application is.

I do have some experience with marine apps, been a boat owner for more then 35 yrs, have never had a problem with bearings, gimble or other wise.

Only thing I ever had a real problem with was the old style OMC stern drive with the knukle drive line in a boat I once owned. It didn't have u-joints on the drive shaft and you trimed with the motor on hydrolic mounts. I personly rebuilt that drive once, but had to replace those damned knuckles several times.

Water was the principal lubricator for the knukles which also kept them cool.

Also had a lower unit lock up on a new Chrisler 105HP Outboard with less then 6 hrs on it, in a 16ft DelMagic. I don't remember exactly what that problem was, but it was repaired under warranty, it may have been bearings.

That was my very first boat to own, needless to say, I didn't keep that motor long. Swaped for a new 115HP Evenrude with power trim & tilt and boy, did it ever make a differance in handling, the Chrisler (no trim & tilt) caused all kinds of problem with boat attitude. That is a story of its own for some other time, maybe.

As for as listening to Kghost exsperiences, mine have served me well over the yrs, as well! Not knocking his!

I have a 20ft 1996 Bayliner Capri Anniversery Edition with a 5.7ltr Mercruiser I specially ordered new. I have never had any problems with the drive, replaced the exhaust bellows once and circulating water pump. It has about 4100 hrs. on it and still looks like new.

As I said earlier, just giving a little insight to a problem some may not be aware of, take it for what it is worth. I stand by it, end of story!There are always exception to everything!"

"The workshop Manual says,

"The workshop Manual says,

"To lubricate the bearing properly, pump 40 full strokes, to deliver about one full ounce of lubricant"

That should settle that disgussion !!

BTW, the latest transom plates don't have the zirk fitting to grease the gimbal bearing and the bearing is pre-lubed.

So if this new boat has the new transom plate there wasn't a place to grease the bearing and would point to some other problem."

OMG they did not do that did t

OMG they did not do that did they??????????
why? boy are they going to have a ton of warrenty work............

Oh he said he greased it......

I have not worked on any 2004 ish or newer....so I have not seen any of the latest changes...

I have backed off on the boat work the last several years but still deal with '80 thru 2000 from time to time.

"Seems the bearing in the alum

"Seems the bearing in the aluminium carrier will be soon unavailable once stock runs out. They are reverting back to the old 1970's style with the bearing in a plastic carrier. The new bearings will come with an up grade kit which has a plug to replace the zirk fitting on the transom plate.

Volvo has gone the same way too, I pulled a XDP (new) drive last week and the gimbal bearing is now mounted in a rubber bush."

"I didn't think Volvo used

"I didn't think Volvo used a gimble bearing. I guess they started that when they bought up OMC.

Michael, you seem like a very opinionated fellow, for which there are plenty on this board. Whatever works for you is beautiful but we all have our experiences that we choose to use in our maintenance regimes. Yours is not the only word of the boat gods. 4100 hours on a 10 year old boat? Do you use it to commmute daily to work?"

"PugetSounder, you sound to me

"PugetSounder, you sound to me like a person who is much more then just opinionated, but one who doesn't take well to someone who was only trying to be helpful, not to tell anyone what to do or not do.

I respect everyone of these guys who have made a comment or statement based from there knowledge and experiences.

I repeat, there is always exceptions to everything and as Chris Dauth pointed out on properly lubricating the gimbal bearing, 40 pumps is needed the first time. I also said earlier that 15 pumps may not be a problem for this perticular bearing as well.

I guess I did fail to explain that it does take more pumps of grease to properly lubricate bearings the first time. The 3 or 4 pumps on most bearings for maintenance, was assuming the bearings were already properly lubricated, it is usually enough because of problems from heat retention and seal blowout.

THIS IS NOT MY OPINION, BUT A FACT BASED ON MY TRAINING AND MY EXPERIENCES. Now everyone else has theirs and if it has served them well, then that's OK!

Now getting a bit sarcastic about how many hours are on my boat, which by the way is 14 yrs old, not 10, was uncalled for and that is only about 300 hrs a year. I don't think I had to drive it to work to accumulate those hours!!! I do use my boat a lot in the spring, summer, and fall!!! Here in "TEXAS", summers tend to come early and be a bit long! my family and I believe in using our boat for as long as the weather permits, even in winter, Thank You!

I apologize to everyone else that I may have offended with my POSTS! No offence was intended nor to ever mislead anyone as to what is proper or improper for bearing maintenance!

Thank you all for your comments and experiences, even if you did and do disagree with me on mine, they have served me well!"

"Michael

Here is one more t

"Michael

Here is one more thing to add that you may or may not have realized.

The gimbal bearing is ~ 5 inches in diameter.
The grease that is pumped in goes thru one hole in the outer aluminum hosuing to the steel bearing inside. The grease path/GROOVE that is ~ 1/16 inch diameter all the way around the outer race and has If I remember correctly 2 (maybe 4) holes ~1/16 dia also to the rollers in the inner race.

After looking at all that distance the grease travels it would not be too far out of the norm to have to pump grease from a grease gun a minimum of 5 to 8 times to get enough grease to evenly flow around all the balls in the bearing.

40 pumps..........NO way, over kill except on new/bone dry.

10-15 pumps, every year with no hesitation.

As far as opinions, they are like assh*les and everyone has one. Some get a bit upset and take things personally, I myself included!!!

Many here have BOAT OWNERS experience.
Some have proffessional experience.
Sometime it is hard to tell who is who because those who have the knowledge or info take it for granted and those who dont try to put forth that info for those who ask.

Also comparing ones experience in other area's does not always fly with the boating (troubleshooting) community.
How many expert or really good auto mechanics come here for answers? It would boggle the mind......

There is never any appoligies needed, only keep low cone when chiming in and swallow thy pride SOMETIMES..........

Of course that is only a suggestion as I myself have had some somewhat "heated" arguments here based on book instructions vs real life experiences.....

JMHO"

"Kghost, I think a lot of peop

"Kghost, I think a lot of people misunderstood what I was saying and missed alot of it as well.

Pride had nothing to do with any of it, and some of what you are saying is not for from what I had said before. Overkill, I agree with what you said there on the gimbal bearing and that is a fair statment

As for as comparing from one area to another, it is in no way any different when it comes to bearings and grease. Marine, Industrial, Automotive or what ever, it's about reducing heat, moisture, and seal damage. Of course you want to use the proper grease for the application.

I have been involved with boats for over half of my life, I don't claim to know everything and I learn something new everyday. That too is why I come to this forum. I have rebuilt one boat from bow to stern, including the stern drive.

I don't claim to be a professional, even though I built my own racing engines for my semi pro auto drag racing days in th mid 1960s to early 70s. I made a lot of mistakes along the way as well. Some of those lessons were hard learned.

As for as geting upset, well I think it is human nature to do that, when one feels he has been misunderstood, or someone gets sarcastic. Such as was the case with the hours of use on my 14 year old boat (1996, 20 ft Bayliner Capri 5.7ltr Mercruiser) I ordered new in 95.

But I do understand where you are coming from and I never expected that everyone would agree with me.

This bearing subject has just served to reinforce my opinion though and this is an opinion, that I should not have offered any help from my experiences or knowledge, when I personally wasn't asked for any! Thanks!

Kghost, you have a Blessed Day!"

"As I got a mention above, I&#

"As I got a mention above, I'll add my 2c worth !
You guys are both right (about the bearings). Michael, you are right about causing premature bearing failure because of too much grease and your reasoning is correct.

But, there is no blanket rule. Lubrication methods depend on the type of bearing and its application and installation. Usually the manufacturer of the equipment will supply lubrication instructions, and they will know what is best (usually) $Millions spent in design.

There are four grease points on our Mercruisers which require our attention, the power steering, the coupler, the gimbal bearing and the U-joints. (some new U-joints have no zirk so forget them). These 4 points are vented, meaning you can pump in as much grease as you want. The excess is just expelled.
In these situations it is best to pump in what was required when new, thus replacing the old grease with new. Like I said about the gimbal bearing above, it required 1 oz of grease when new, so ideally another 1 oz should be pumped in at subsequent services.

With the power steering actuator, coupler and U-Joints, pump in enough grease until you see the new grease being expelled.

BTW, I'm retired now, but spent 45 years as a field engineer in the oil industry (NOT behind a desk), worked in 67 countries (even the USA) fixing the broken, everything from 1/4 HP to 55,000 HP. Worked for a time with Bently-Navada specializing in rotating machinery.

Still learning new stuff every day !!"

"I have no problem listening t

"I have no problem listening to other people's advice and experience. GUY, KGhost, Bondo, BT_Doctor, and many others have vast knowledge about Mercruisers that I relish and have learned from. But you came on here as a newbie claiming that something was the wrong way when in fact it isn't. And I brought it up and you had a problem with it. That's all.

And c'mon man, 4100 hours? Unless your boat is a 30 year old diesel trawler, that's one for the record books. Average hours would be a tenth of that. Max hours might be half of that if taken care of. Why take it personally?"

"YOU know Pudgetsounder, I may

"YOU know Pudgetsounder, I may be a newbie here as you call me, but I'm not a newbie on experience and knowledge. But because you'v been a member longer then I, it makes you an authority to judge my knowledge and experience? I have many hours of schooling on bearings and I made no statement or accusations that were not true in most applications. Sure every situation is different and exceptions do apply in all things! Just the principles are the same.

You know this subject has been gone over long enough. Right or wrong, one can take what has been said by all, for what it is worth. Take it or leave it, is fine! Yes, everyone has a different take on what is proper and what has worked for them and that is good! I'm sure though, that more will be said!

The only intelligent statement you've made was about keeping water out of the bearings. Blow the seals, you won't keep the water out very long.

OooH Yes! I had a problem with the comments you made about my knowledge and the hours on my boat!

Your quote! "Michael, you seem like a very opinionated fellow, for which there are plenty on this board. Whatever works for you is beautiful but we all have our experiences that we choose to use in our maintenance regimes. Yours is not the only word of the boat gods. 4100 hours on a 10 year old boat? Do you use it to commmute daily to work?" I consider that as being very sarcastic!

Now you came on here with a sarcastic mouth about my knowledge and twisted what I said and calling me some "Boat God". I didn't come on, like my word was the only word! Maybe my choice of words may have not been the best, but I didn't cut anyone down as you have me!

You don't know me are my business, nor how my boat is used, or for what, and to tell me how many hours I should have or not have on my boat is very ignorant on your part!

For your information, the exact hours are 4021.4 in 14 yrs, that would come to just a little over 287 hrs. a year. We have been on the lake just about every weekend, 6 to 8 months, sometimes more, of every year for the past 34 yrs! 14 yrs with this boat!

Now that's an average of 9 to 12 hrs. each weekend. BUT WAaaaIT! We forgot those long vacation weeks, on the lake every year! Damn, I'm surprised I don't have more hours on that boat! We must have slipped up on using it, during those times!

As I said earlier, summers comes early and leave late, here in TEXAS, and winters tend to be mild! So we get on the lake often in winter too, weather permitting!

Time just seems to have a way of getting away from us though! Like getting older, I'm 63 and time has gone by like a vapor! However, I didn't buy my boat to let it sit in the driveway, I use it!!!

Now you go ahead, try and tell me, that it is not possible for those hours to be on that boat!!!! Because Mr., your WRONG!!! You can't be telling someone how many hours they have or don't have on their boat, based on your perception of use!

Also you need to learn some people skills and not be so sharp with the tongue, but I'm sure your won't!"

"Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding,

"Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!

30 second time out. Come out w/your grease guns loaded and fire away. Use of Preparation H is illegal! "

"Guy, good reply! Ha!"

"Guy, good reply! Ha!"

Wow seems like alot of chest t

Wow seems like alot of chest thumping and grunting going on here since I started this post!!!! Anyway back to the real topic ...the status of my boat. I called the dealership and they told me that they found a cracked powersteering housing. Now I am not a boat god like some people but I cant possibly see how this could be the problem given the symptoms I gave them. I told them it would make a growling noise consistently starting at 2900 rpms and continue untill you went below 2900. The noise was coming from the transom area....any opinions on their prognosis?I also asked them if they would do a lake test and they said no they would just run it up in the shop.

Justin it sounds like you need

Justin it sounds like you need a second opinion! If they don't even do a water test how can they possibly fix the problem? Are you bound by warranty to go this particular marine mechanic? If not I would definitely go somewhere else and let them know why.

MG Texas? That explains everything!

"PugetS., I guess you are now

"PugetS., I guess you are now putting geography into it, or are you referring to something else, in regards to my being from TEXAS?

You just plain have an attitude problem. Well, it doesn't surprise me, I had expected it from you, giving the way you have mouth off from the beginning.

I could say something along those lines too, but I'm not going to lower myself to your level, and it would not be doing justice to others, there where you are or anywhere else.

You have just confirmed my perception of you, by your lastest remark! Your just not worth any further responce!

YOU try and have a NICE day, if that's possible!"

"I`ve been reading this forum

"I`ve been reading this forum damn near every day for the last three years and this is the absolute first time I have ever witnessed Puget Sounder in any kind of controvery.He has been nothing but pleasant and as helpful as he is able to be.There were about three people expressing the same view about the amount of grease that was applicable. Puget Sounder was a little surprised to hear you had 4100 hours on a 96 boat and questioned it thinking it might have been a typo and you have gone on a campaign to discredit him.
As a matter of fact, in my three years here I have not witnessed any controversy until now !!"