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Whats better 470 or a 165

P

pakula_sunrise

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"Hi guys, I'm looking at b

"Hi guys, I'm looking at buying a Bertram 25 flybridge and was wondering what would be the best option, one with twin 470's or twin 165's ? seen a really nice boat, but with the older 165's, is it going to be a headache???

Cheers, Tobe"
 
"need to be more specific abou

"need to be more specific about the 165's
Are you talking 6 cylinder 165,
or 4 cylinder 165?"
 
Both engines have been out of

Both engines have been out of prodution for quite some time. There are probably more 165 engines available to rmfgd. than 470s since the 165 was also used in cars and trucks.

Even though the 165 engines can be rmfgd. I would consider the size of the engine room in order to repower w/4.3L V6 engines. If two V6 engines would fit then I would take that boat given the rest of the boat is in good condition.
 
"I would consider the Chevrole

"I would consider the Chevrolet inline 6 165's a much better powerplant than the Mercruiser/Ford hybrid 470.
It's a matter of opinion, and that can be difficult on a message board, but I think if you do a lot of reading, you'll find the industry is not too fond of the 470 unless it has been very well maintained and has a known history since day 1.

Whereas the inline 6 , although an older design engine, is a well respected Chevrolet 6 cylinder that has dime-a-dozen parts and is dead simple to understand and work on.


"
 
"So it loks like the old 165&#

"So it loks like the old 165's are the way to go then, how are they on fuel and reliabilty, I'm currently running a volvo penta AQ170 in my boat, so I know how they can be. Anything I should look out for????"
 
"Tobin
I have a pair of the 1

"Tobin
I have a pair of the 165,s big brother, the 200 in line 6 in my berty 25.
One of my engines has just had its 4th dumping of salt water through it and I still cannot kill it.
They are a thumping old truck engine that you just cannot kill, they are getting a little harder to get parts localy in OZ but readily available from the USA at a good price even considering the frieght and exchange rate.

For my money the 165 would always be my selection over the 470.

Cheers

Peter C
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"
 
I used to own a Bert 25 (s

I used to own a Bert 25 (soft top).
First... it is unlikely you will find a V anything that will fit unless you do major transom surgery... not recommended.

I had done a bit of research as was going to do a re-engine on my B25 and had decided to look for Chevvy 292 (200 HP) engines. MERC made them for a couple of years. These are basically the same block as the 165.

I had such major heartburn with the front engine mount on the I-6 engines and the indrive raw water impellers that I was seriously thinking about replacing the MERC drives with Volvo 280s (or 290s w/power trim) and Volvo 251A 4 Cylinder 167HP).
Alas... never completed the project. Lost boat in a divorce.
 
"Get the boat surveyed! Check

"Get the boat surveyed! Check the transom, floors, stringers and engine mounts for ROT."
 
"Robert, the 292's work we

"Robert, the 292's work well in the Berty's, your right about the engines being similar, its only the longer stroke that gets the cube's up from 250 to 292 all the externals and many of the internals are interchangeable

Tobin I cannot help you with Transom rot but as far as rot under the front engine mounts, I have just done mine and I managed to rebuild them in my Berty without cutting the whole mounts out and it wasnt that hard at all so if you find one that has a little rot under the mounts dont be too scared.

I am happy to advise on how to do it with minimal fuss and destruction.

Cheers

Peter C
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"
 
"Hi Robert

Nice observation

"Hi Robert

Nice observation, you are exactly right she is a Bahia Mar fitted up with a fly bridge which is a very rare combination.

Certainly they could be regarded as one of the forunners of the modern day sports cruiser as in their day they were one of the quickest 25 footers around, but had the touches that others lacked with her internal galley, enclosed shower and head as well as a reasonably well appointed cabin.

Although not a particularly fuel efficent hull shape, she is rock solid in all conditions at all speeds.

She is a labour of love which I have gradualy been restoring over about the last 4 years.
Trying to date her exactly seems to be near impossible but going off the engines and drives that are in her, I put her vintage as being somewhere round the 1970 mark.

I hope to finish the restoration sometime in the next 2 years and then I may just test the market to see what she is worth.

Cheers
Peter C
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"
 
"Robert
here is the larger im

"Robert
here is the larger image for you
250967.jpg
Bahia Mar "Buggas 2""">

She now has full clears around the rear and a new flybridge cover.

Peter C
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"
 
"Tobe, the 165 are a good moto

"Tobe, the 165 are a good motor. Mexican chev truck motor? But i have heard that the manifolds crack. In the last 6 month a Sydney Welsh man sold a set on eBay with new legs. He spent a fortune before repowering with out boards. Sold the o/drives, old and new legs plus motors and odds for $6000.00. I followed a Sydney based Savage Range 24 foot new motor, S/S manifold/risers 280 volvo single prop [reno] went for Under $18000.00. There is a lot for sale down your way. A 25 Bertram single V 8 merc arround $24000.00 app. You have a single in your marlin, ask the benefits and cons of single V twin. In a Bert 25 you will limp home on one motor unless you change the prop [out there ] where the fins are. I have a single six in my Mariner but a 265 Hemi FWC 200HP. You should know what that is, as Perer would also! Peter is that a 60 series Land Crusier?"
 
"I love my inline 6 even thoug

"I love my inline 6 even though it was from a '74 Nova, good thing it's a '74 StarCraft Islander. I'd love to put a 292 in. I'm not sure of the pistons, but I know the Rods, Crank, Cam and Block and lifter covers are different from the 250. Everything else is the same except the 292ci 200hp had a 4bbl carb."
 
"Fredrick, can I call you Fred

"Fredrick, can I call you Fred ?
Yes that is an old 60series land cruiser, it is our family tow and work vehicle.
She is a great old truck but I can tell you it works very hard pulling the Berty around.

I have a great deal of respect for the Chev in line sixer's, I have 2, 250 blocks here ready to rebuild one day if the 292's in mine drop their bundle, but I have to say (touching some wood as I do ) that these old Chevs are just so bloody good, performance machines they are not, but they just go and go. As I mentioned earlier one of my engines is on around its 4th dump of salt through the works from failing risers or manifolds but I go out give the thottle 2 pumps and she starts up beautifully, she may have low oil pressure (which I overcome with additives but the old girl still has plenty of grunt left in her yet.
The savage's and the mariners loved their hemi engines didn't they, V8 or Six not a bad engine, just not my preference and also getting very hard to get bits for.
Cheers
Peter
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"
 
"the inline 6's for a long

"the inline 6's for a long time out pulled V8's at the drag strip.

I stripped the paint of the covers and hit them with a buffing wheel and compound, looked nice (not perfect) but should've sealed them after with some clear..

that was 3 years ago, i put new blue marine wires on 2 years ago.. have a new flame arrestor going on..

PS dont use an auto inline with the auto cam, get the marine cam... ( auto doesn't have much HP & torque )
282429.jpg
inline with polished alum
 
"That engine looks too flash f

"That engine looks too flash for a boat Brian.

There is no boubt that you can make the 292's go hard and fast but like most engines, the more you tweak them the more fragile they become.

In a cruiser I like the reliability that stock standard engines give me, nowdays I preffer comfort and reliability to speed.

Cheers
PeterC
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"
 
"Tobin, I have sent you an ema

"Tobin, I have sent you an email direct. It has not come through a being read, May be in your junk mail. Also have something else of interest. Frederick"
 
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