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a1nowell

Contributing Member
"I am having a bad lugging pro

"I am having a bad lugging problem om my '84 M/C 470. I have a new 750 CCA automotive battery. Everything I have read about a Marine Battery has indicated less CCA and a longer life running auxillary equipment. I had the starter rebuilt 8 months ago and I feel my rebuiler did not true up my armaturer. My partner in crime says the lugging is because of not having a Marine Battery. I have no equipment running when the boat is not in use. And other than a minute or so of the blower motor running, no extra equipment is pulling down the battery. And I also have a Battery cut-off switch I used religiously.

I would like any suggestions or comments"
 
"My partner in crime says

"My partner in crime says the lugging is because of not having a Marine Battery."

He's either pulling your leg or has a big bump on the back of his head and doesn't know it! An automotive battery will work since the majority of the electrical load is handled by the alternator.
 
"Ayuh,... What's it show

"Ayuh,... What's it show for Voltage,..??

What kinda shape is the Wiring in,... The Battery Wires,..??"
 
"By "lugging" do you m

"By "lugging" do you mean that the engine does not crank at full speed when you try to start?

Per "Guy G"... an automotive battery will work "
Yes it will, but not as long since marine batteries are built to more rugged standards.
For the first season (or maybe two) you won't see a difference.

Per Bondo..." check the wiring"... I've also seen battery switch problems over the years.

Another possibility is that the alternator is not fully recharging the battery."
 
larry i also have a 84 470 and

larry i also have a 84 470 and had the same problem automotive batteries dont cut it for the 470 get the correct marine battery and your probs should be taken care of. i have used auto batteries in the past and they are for what they say auto do yourself a favor and get a marine battery
 
"The engine cranks pretty good

"The engine cranks pretty good when cold. But if you let the engine run for a while and get up to normal operating temperature and shut the engine off and try to start it again that is when it really lugs. The battery is brand new, battery cables are brand new, wiring from the switch to the wiring harness is new, wiring harness is original.

If cranking amps is what I need, I just can't see that a marine battery will solve my problem.

More thoughts please.

Larry"
 
with that said. have you check

with that said. have you checked your timing lately? if its off a few deg it will do that. (start good when cold and lug when warm).on the other hand it could be the starter armature . but ohnestly id be willing to pay you for your marine battery if it doesnt cure your prob. i know it dont add up to you and it didnt to me as well but one has to understand CCA and RESERVE CAPACITY.its the same senario u dont use an automotive battery in a diesel truck. the marine battery has way more plates than an auto battery. i guess the only way your gonna know larry is to borrow the proper battery and try it and also check the timing
 
"You answered the problem with

"You answered the problem with, cranks good when cold but lugs when at operating temp.
Steve's rite on for cause."
 
larry keep in mind that there

larry keep in mind that there are two types of marine batteries one is for trolling witch is a deep cycle battery and the other is a marine starting battery just thought id let ya know so you didnt get the two mixed up
 
"The volt meter reads 13 v

"The volt meter reads 13 volts when engine is running."

Check the output w/a digital volt meter. The alternator should put out between 14.4 and 14.8 vdc. Your alternator may have an open diode which is reducing its output.
 
"I had the starter rebuilt

"I had the starter rebuilt 8 months ago and I feel my rebuiler did not true up my armaturer."

Engine heat can affect a starter. The magnetic coils can expand along with an imperfect armature which causes the starter to "lug" or strain because the coils are rubbing against the armature; seeming like the battery is at fault.
 
"Larry
Take the engine up to

"Larry
Take the engine up to 1000 rpm and check the voltage again. It should be as Guy states. If not then your alternator is not putting out as it should, or you have large drain in the system somewhere that is soaking up your current.
Bert"
 
"Larry...

Check the amp dra

"Larry...

Check the amp draw of the starter when the engine is cold and when the engine is hot. It may be slightly higher when hot because the engine has expanded due to the heat and the starter will also have heat soaked some, but it shouldn't be WAY higher. CCA of the batt should act the same with either type of batt (auto/marine) as far as the starter is concerned. As far as I know, the marine batt is made stronger inside to withstand the constant vibration of pounding against waves.

Wrench"
 
"RE:"As far as I know, the

"RE:"As far as I know, the marine batt is made stronger inside to withstand the constant vibration of pounding against waves. "

Correct... as well as having two sets (typically) of terminals."
 
"OK, I'm convinced, I boug

"OK, I'm convinced, I bought an Exide Marine Starting Battery with 800 CCA. We'll see how she works. I feel better with two batteries on board anyway.

Thanks to everyone for the sage advice."
 
"'Marine' battery vs &

"'Marine' battery vs 'automotive' battery vs "deep cycle" battery....
A marine 'starting' battery is basically the same as an auto battery - just has nice little handles for ease of handling, and in some cases a little heavier case. Both of these are made for a quick, high amp output to start the motor. Just watch the voltage drop after half a dozen or more decent cranks.
Now a deep cycle battery has much heavier plates; these plates are thicker, have a beefier grid and hold more paste (active material) ... giving a longer lasting, more sustained power source.
I've always had one starting battery for the motor, and one deep cycle battery to run the rest of the electronics/electrics. I also had a separate cable with a disconnect plug on the deep cycle's spare terminals to connect to a small charger.
That's my 2 bits worth...."
 
"larry do us a favor and let u

"larry do us a favor and let us know if the battery solved the problem . seems like several of us on here need to know
happy.gif


thanks steve"
 
"I will agree with ...some...

"I will agree with ...some... of what Gabe said.

"a deep cycle battery has much heavier plates; these plates are thicker, have a beefier grid and hold more paste (active material) ... giving a longer lasting, more sustained power source."

The deep cycle batt that is used on my trolling motor is quite a bit heavier than my starting batt. It is a bit larger in size, but only maybe 25% larger."
 
"I am feeling real stupid and

"I am feeling real stupid and need some help. I’ve got this old this old 1984 M/C 470 w/an Alpha 1 O/D , setting in an old JC Tritoon. Over the past year I have rebuilt everything except the engine. Now the stupid part. When I crank it up and put it in gear, the forward throttle is reverse and the reverse is forward. I know the cables at the throttle are in the right locations. I did rebuild the O/D and put new seals a couple of new bearings and new water pump. Any ideas?"
 
"Hiya Wrench....only agree wit

"Hiya Wrench....only agree with "some"... hmmm, what don't you agree with? Let me know. Thanks.

Just another 2 bits worth.
I spent about 30 some odd years in the battery business, lots of automotive, but mainstreamed in industrial and their chargers. For quite a while I had frames with nylon rope handles I would slip an auto battery into to make it a marine starting unit. A cranking battery is a cranking battery... power mainly depends on how many plates are used in each cell. Mind you some manufacturers have a better grids and paste formulations than others. That also makes a big difference. I've seen offshore batteries with plates as thin as a ruler, separaters like rice paper. Lucky to get a season out of it... but they were pretty damn cheap.

The biggest problem is that people leave them in the boats once the season's done, still connected and everything. And it was easy to tell.... just look and push in at both ends ...see some bulging?... case doesn't move?...feels very hard? Ok, plates are sulfated... battery is toast... no warranty."
 
seen my brother push in on a b

seen my brother push in on a bulging sears diehard onetime and it blew in his face ill never forget that.that was a mess
 
"Hi Gabe

If you've been

"Hi Gabe

If you've been in the batt business that long you obviously know your stuff better than I do. I used to deal alot with the Exide batt guys in london. Bessemer Crt. down by where Wellington meets up with the 401 in the south end. I truely saw many different cases with and without handles. You can get a DT55, DT75, DT78 all with or without handles, how ever the retailer wanted it. I'm sure you can get a 47 with handles or the nylon ropes. Its been a couple of years since I've dealt with batts, and my memory has been fading since eating out of all these aluminum pots. I truely thought that marine batts are constructed much beefier and were not just an auto batt with a different sticker.

I didn't mean to step on any toes. My appologies

Wrench"
 
"Hi Wrench.
You're not st

"Hi Wrench.
You're not stepping on toes or anything. Now I'm no 'expert' or chemical engineer; I just know what works and what doesn't and maybe a more than basic understanding of why. As well, I've been out of the business for about 6 years, so things may have changed. I know a while back, they started putting more calcium (I think) into the paste to kick up the voltage, but then that kinda screws up charging cycles, the regulators (where possible) needed adjusting, and such.
Just like everything else we read here... a little regular preventative maintenance stretches out a dollar.

BTW... have you thought of buying that alignment tool. I'll split it with ya. Mind you, I don't have a motor yet, but soon.... I hope.
Later.
Gabe"
 
My ADD will not allow me to re

My ADD will not allow me to read this entire thread but I did scan it and didn't see any mention of other possibilities regarding your problem.

Are you sure you're looking in the right area? How are engine temps and what is compression like when hot. Those morphadites are very prone to coolant ingestion and you may well be weeping some into the cylinder after running a while then sitting. Are you losing any coolant from your reservoir? Also engine temps will rise slightly when shut down after a hard run. This could also effect the cranking ability of your starting system.

Foods for thought...

Rick
 
I haven't gotten to try it

I haven't gotten to try it yet. The two drive gears in my sterndrive decided to have a fight and both lost teeth. I ordered a new upper unit from SEI. It should arrive on Monday the 13th.

I'll keep everyone posted.
 
"OK,
Here is the latest on th

"OK,
Here is the latest on the lugging. I finally got to take the old boat to the lake and run it for a couple of hours. At inital start I still have a lug but the starter kicks the motor over pretty fast and the engine started quickly. I cruised around for a couple of hours stopping and starting several times with the lugging getting worse as time went on. As I was about to go in I shut her down and tried to restart, no go. The starter acted like the battery did not have enough power to turn the starter over. This is a brand new, fully charged Exide marine battery with 800 CCA. I also had my brand new fully charged auto battery with 750 CCA that I jumped to the Exide, same results. I put out the anchor, put a minnow on a hook and proceeded to wait. I tried to restart about every ten minutes, after the second or third try the starter would turn faster but not fast enough to start the engine. I tried again after a total of 45 minutes, lug, lug then sing, she started. Engine temperature never got over 160 degrees.

Any thoughts? Also, nary a nibble!"
 
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