318 after grounding locked help

"Hi Everyone!

Here's my

"Hi Everyone!

Here's my tale of distress: Bought a gorgeous old Luhrs with twin 318 v-drives (sea water cooled) .. and it's been running great. However, last night in the dark we ran aground pretty good and a kindly passerby helped us pull off the mud... and I think I've completely ruined one engine!

Here's what happened: After getting ungrounded- tried to run a bit and the port engine gets hot (gage says about 200) and is kind of "chugging". Also getting some excessive vibration.

SOoo... Running at only about 1100 rpm it calms down to around 160 and we limp home like that for about an hour. Used both engines to dock and then shut them down.

After getting everyone off, I then open the compartment and restart it... chugs a bit and stalls.. try to start again- it's locked up!

Here's what I know:

After docking & shutting down, the stbd manifold felt a bit hotter than the port, but not extremely hot (could still put my palm on it).

No sign of water in the oil.

So my friends.. Where do I start? I'm *thinking* that I sucked in some mud and clogged something.. maybe burned out a piston. I may also have done some prop/strut damage, but I hope not. Grounding was at low speed.

I have to figure this out and do the repairs myself because I'm up to hock already just buying the boat.. and I'm TOTALLY bummed out today thinking I've just totally destroyed it.

ANY help appreciated!

If it helps at all, boat pics (including engine pics) taken a couple of months ago are here:

http://www.qgm.com/gary/carpathia

Thanks in advance!!

Gary"

UPDATE: Went down tonight and

UPDATE: Went down tonight and turned the crank with a big socket.. motor turned! Looks like the "locked up" is starter related (why these things happen at the same time is beyond me)

Now to figure out why the starter just dimmed the lights the first couple of tries... now turning the key does NOTHING.

THEN I can get back to figuring out if I damaged the motor

"Gary,

This is not nesessar

"Gary,

This is not nesessarily complete wipe out. 200 deg. is not that hot if it only reached that temp for a short time, and it wasn't re-flooded with cold water which raises the risk of cracking a casting.

Here is a post I found at the following site.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.cruising/browse_frm/thread/e5ff44e61b3b 345d/8e060372ff235725?tvc=1#8e060372ff235725

I recently picked up a 1995 Silverton 362 with twin 454 Crusaders. She's a
real beauty with only 108 hours on a pristine condition boat...

During a recent run up the Napa River, I must have had a brain freeze. When I came to I found myself just right of center of the shallow channel, and of course in the mud.

After 5 hours of playing cards, we were once again set free to float and make way. Only to find that the starboard engine immediately ran up to over 200 degrees. Well, we got to safe harbor on 1 and to make a long story short...

It's been 4 weeks since, and each with a new piece of the raw water cooling
system being pulled apart to find it packed full of mud. I am now down to the last piece which is the "U-Cooler" for the oils, and after all this, it will amount to 12 days of wrenching, and $120.00 worth of parts and "boiling" of heat exchangers.

My first steps would be:
1) close the seacock and starting from the raw water inlet start taking hoses off the engine loolking for mud & silt and flushing the cooling system clean. (A tip to help wremove stubborn hoses is to pour hot water [nearly boiling] over the end of the hose to soften it up, making them easier to remove. I sometimes bring a thermos of hot water when doing cooling system work for this purpose.) Also remove the raw water pump & thermostat to see if there is mud in there. From your photos, the exhaust manifolds look like they've been around a while and it may be time to replace them anyway. I would be most concerned about flushing any silt out of the block.

2) go overboard with diving mask and check out the prop, shaft and strut for any vissible damage. If the shaft or strut are damaged, you are looking at a haul out for repairs.

3) As for the starter, the port looks like it could be original. The starboard looks like it was replaced. You can try trouble shooting the starter by removing it from the engine and connecting it directly to a battery with heavy cables, It will jump if it spins, but you will know it is bad if it won't spin while off the engine. (You have to attach a ground to the starter body somewhere for this test.

There are smarter people on this board than me who will hopefully offer advice about how to safely flush out the block if you find mud there.

The photos look very nice. That's a nice boat. Is it early 1970's?
Good Luck,"

"Sounds like your starting sys

"Sounds like your starting system was marginal (worn batteries, bad connections, whipped solenoid, etc.) before the incident. With the engine hot and unhappy, it took more cranking power it start, and it wasn't there.

ChuckA's advice is sound--you probably have a bunch of mud jammed in there. I would also do a few other things:

1. Buy a laser-pointed temp gun (and never leave the slip without it!) When you get the old gal running, and up to temperature, sweep the entire motor and exhaust to look for hot spots. The motor should not be over 150/ the exhaust system a bit less than that.

2. Get/ do a compression test on the motor, and pay special attention to water on the plugs as they come out (and when you first crank it over).

Good luck, and hang in there. These are tough engines.

Jeff

PS: Note to all: This incident illustrates what NOT to do if you run aground. Sure, you try to back off when it happens, but if this fails SHUT down immediately. Just imagine the stirred up mud going into those strainers!"

"OK.. went back down tonight

"OK.. went back down tonight after the 100 degree heat passed - turned the motor over by hand one good full rev to make sure there were no hangups.. removed the starter- bench tested.. it just hums. Need to replace that. Tested the solenoid.. shot too.

Meanwhile.. opened up the manifold ends.. looked inside- no mud. Removed the hose that comes from the bottom of the manifold near the end caps and sent water through it and back out the end of the manifolds... came out a tad silty, but relatively clean. Next step is to remove & open the water pump.

Is there a PROPER way to backflush the entire system to remove any possible mud? i.e. open up "X" and send water thru "Y", or do I just open up everything and put the garden hose to it all?

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement - I'm considerably less depressed about this than I was immediately after... I just may be able to get my pride & joy up & running again."

..."just open up everythin

..."just open up everything and put the garden hose to it."

Yup. Glad to hear your motor is probably okay!

Jeff

When you were crancking you mi

When you were crancking you might have burned out your solnoid. or a wire could have come lose. Oh by the way these problem dont happen at odd times they happen all the time.

Dont kill your self to get the

Dont kill your self to get the mud out. the first time you run it with good water going thru is more flow than a garden hose. Having water all over your engine compartment is worse than a little residual silt.

"Well, THANK YOU ALL for the g

"Well, THANK YOU ALL for the great advice.. have made some real progress.. and things are looking better.

Removed manifold end caps & hoses- flushed everything out. (nothing came out really but water and a tiny bit of silt)

Removed water pump- one impeller shredded and plugging the ports. Replaced both- reinstalled.

Replaced starter (was able to use the coil from an old one along with this starter), installed a new Solenoid.

..and it RUNS!.. yeah!! holding temp, but a bit of vibration and seeing some steam in the exhaust.

A quick dive to inspect runing gear shows that shafts & struts are ok.. stbd prop has a few nicks.. port prop has ONE blade with a small curl-over which is undoubtedly the vibration source.

Steam in exhaust was more worrisome, but after reading a few other threads here and inspecting, found that one exhaust hose from the riser to the transom is partially collapsed internally (PHEW- that could've been worse).. will be replacing that today.

I'm thinking that I may just live with the prop vibration until fall haul-out and then have them reconditioned. Yard mechanic says it shouldn't really hurt anything- just take it easy on her.

I do have another question unrelated to this "event" - will post that under a seperate topic.

Thanks again everyone!!"

Thanks for coming back with th

Thanks for coming back with the out come. It is much more fun and informative that way.