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Creamed oil

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93regal

Member
"'93 4.3LX Mercruiser Alph

"'93 4.3LX Mercruiser Alpha One
SN 0D852963


Hey guys, I got troubles. I have creamed oil in the rocker area on the right cylinder head. The front two lifter rods are coated with it. It is also all over the upper portion of the distributor shaft. none shows on the dipstick. The dipstick oil looks normal.

As I started tearing down, I found water in the exhaust ports of the heat exchanger. I haven't figured out where it came from yet.

I have three main questions;

1. Thoughts on how water could get in the exhaust ports. And what do I do about it.

2. How do I adjust these valves? I have the book. The book (clymer, mercruiser)says adjustment is not necessary on a Gen II engine.
I don't think I have a Gen II engine. My rockers have studs, with nuts to hold them on. The nuts spin freely until they are tightened. Which makes no sense.

3. How can I rotate this engine manually? with that itty bitty bolt on the crankshaft?

thanks in advance,

If you would rather have pics, let me know.I can have them on here in 5 min."
 
"Pictures would be nice. That

"Pictures would be nice. That as you call it itty bitty bolt on the crankshaft is a tough bolt. It will turn the engine with no problem as long as there is nothing keeping the engine from turning(broken rod etc.). As for the water being only on one side and not in the oil pan that is strange. There can be several things letting water in. Broken water jacket in the exhuast manifold,cracked head,bad head gasket or intake gasket. Just for starters. As for the adjustment of the valves,the nuts are locking nuts that when the valve is set hold the adjustment in place."
 
"I am guessing that the valves

"I am guessing that the valves were so far out of adjustment that the engine was actually pulling water in through the exhaust manifold. After pulling the head off last week, I caused this somehow. I still don't see how those rocker arm nuts stay in place as loose as they are, but I will try it tomorrow.

Next question.-------------------------

What is the best way to rid the engine of this creamy oil? clean everything I can reach and put seafoam in the oil then change it?"
 
I guess clean it as best you c

I guess clean it as best you can. Change the oil after a few hours of use.
The valves will not let water into the engine.. Unless the port is cracked in the head.
I do not understand just what you mean by the nuts were loose. Loose on the threads or the rockers could move under them?
 
"The nuts are loose, as in, yo

"The nuts are loose, as in, you can turn them with your fingers until they make contact with the rocker bearing. After that of course, you can no longer turn them with your fingers.

I don't believe I had the valves adjusted properly, as in, the exhaust port would still be open enough to create a vacuum strong enough to draw water into the engine from the exhaust manifold when the piston is on the intake stroke."
 
""the exhaust port would s

""the exhaust port would still be open enough to create a vacuum strong enough to draw water into the engine from the exhaust manifold when the piston is on the intake stroke."

Haven't seen this before and would suggest this scenario is unlikely. You would hear a lot of racket and or poor running conditions if your valves were out by that much. Would look the manifolds over for leaks.

I'm not mistaken the procedures for adjusting valves (hydraulic lifters), you turn the motor over to various degrees, tighten rockers down in sequence, then start engine and tighten down rockers till the chatter stops and then go 1/2 to 3/4 turns - something like that. Follow the manual very closely for valve adjustment."
 
""You would hear a lot of

""You would hear a lot of racket and or poor running conditions if your valves were out by that much"

That's pretty much the way it acts and sounds.

When I put the engine back together, I assumed that the rocker arm nuts must be the 'crank it down til it stops and torque as directed' type. My thought: Since the nuts have nothing to hold them in place, then they must crank down. The manual is useless at this point because the descriptions and various engine configurations are unclear.

SO. Since it was running fine before the inspection was done, then it was something I did.

I am guessing I screwed up the rocker nut /valve lash setting"
 
"The water could be ingested t

"The water could be ingested through the exhaust port but that generally happens when there's not much difference in height between the water and the top of the riser, assuming the manifolds, gaskets and the rest of teh exhaust has no problems. Also, once the water gets into the cylinder(s), you can't turn the motor over because it's hydraulically locked unless the valves are staying open, and then it won't run well if there are many valves open.

If the nuts are that loose, they were definitely not tightened properly. Why did you adjust them? If the nuts have a nylon insert (ring) on them and they turn freely, they need to be replaced. Do it as insurance against future problems.

If the spark plugs are out, yes, the crank pulley bolt is what you can use to turn the motor. The bolt is hardened and you'll want to use a long ratchet for this. To be accurate, you might consider getting a degree wheel for this but it's not absolutely necessary.

To get rid of the milky oil, get a lot of cheap, thin oil and change it, but add about one quart less than a regular fill. There's still a bunch stuck to everything in the motor and once it starts to mix with the new oil, the volume will increase. Add Sea Foam if you want this to get expensive or about a cup of kerosene with each oil change until it looks like normal oil. Change the filter every time, too. For getting the water out, I would use cheap filters, too.

If you had water in the exhaust ports, have the manifolds pressure tested. They may be cracked or rusted through. You may also have bad riser gaskets and this is the first thing I would check.

Did this motor freeze?"
 
"Nope. In the process of track

"Nope. In the process of tracking down a no fuel problem, 'something' entered the intake manifold and ended up in one of the cylinders. After hearing the noise, the cylinder head had to be removed to visually inspect the damage. Very little damage, only minor scarring to the top of the piston. Not a mark on anything else. After retrieving 3 small mangled metal things, I reassembled the motor, using the best information I had. And here we are. creamed oil, exhaust manifold with water in the valleys and still no understanding of these rocker arm nuts. I am going to replace these stupid things with nylon insert nuts."
 
"Use the OEM parts, they might

"Use the OEM parts, they might be clinch nuts.

Exhaust valley- you mean intake, right?

Go to a GM dealer and get them to copy the section in the GM shop manual for the motor block number you have. It's either on one head under one of the valve covers or on the rear of the block, usually next to the ground bolt, cast into the iron.

You got a new gasket set when you reassembled it, didn't you? The ones for marine need to be marine specific.

What part(s) were missing when you tried to reassemble it?"
 
"No missing parts.

"E

"No missing parts.

"Exhaust valley- you mean intake, right?"
no, there are smallish dips in the exhaust manifold that will hold water ...

taking pictures... back in a sec"
 
"I will never know. There is a

"I will never know. There is a padded lid thing that covers the engine area side to side on the boat. I think that something from the tool box (spare screws/washers) was placed on the lid when it was flipped back. When the lid was closed, right into the intake manifold (Weber carb off, being rebuilt).

Here are the pics
23488.jpg
the exhaust valley"">
23489.jpg
The non locking nut
 
"Also,
re: "You got a ne

"Also,
re: "You got a new gasket set when you reassembled it, didn't you? The ones for marine need to be marine specific."

Nope, FelPro from the local parts house.

I did not replace the gasket on the heat exchanger. No water leaks were evident after re-assembly, nor during testing."
 
"I'll bet you stuff a rag

"I'll bet you stuff a rag into the intake next time. Duct tape works, too. I like to have a layer, sticky side up in case parts go-a-flyin'."
 
"Ain't that the truth. I

"Ain't that the truth. I am being all 'by the book', because I am showing someone how this works. And it's been fun fun fun. Showed me good.


No good deed goes unpunished."
 
"It is not a good idea to put

"It is not a good idea to put kerosene in a engine or to use oil that is not the weight required for the engine. This will reduce the amount of protection the oil provides to the main,rod and cam bearings. Without proper weight oil these bearings can receive fatal damage from the oil being to thin. The chance of a quart of stuff being left behind is slim since it would drain down in a day or so. Do not run the engine low on oil. If there is stuff left behind it will further reduce the oil.
If I understand this, the nuts for the valve adjustment will tighten down until they make contact with the rockers. But are the threads of the stud out of the top of the nut at that point? About the last 3 turns to expose the threads at the top of the nut is where the nut locks.
Remove the rocker and then screw the nut on and see if you can screw the nut down until the stud is past the top of the nut. If so they need replaced.
Do not use nylon lock nuts on the valve train. The nuts required for the adjustment of the rockers are made just for that.
I have never seen a valve adjustment nut ware out. Doesn't mean it can't happen,I just have never seen it.

If you have water getting into the exhuast port then either the head or exhuast manifold is cracked if all the gaskets are good. Check that whatever you dropped in the carb did not damage the head. (leak down test on cylinder)"
 
I see you have a automotive ga

I see you have a automotive gasket set. The marine engine needs a stainless steel head gasket. The automovive one will not last.
 
"First of all, the water/oil m

"First of all, the water/oil mix loses a lot of oil film too, but if it's not running hard or for long, it won't make much difference and this is only to get the bad stuff out. People go way too long for their oil changes and the motor still runs, right? Kerosene draws the water into the oil by breaking down the creamy mixture. I got that tip from someone who worked for Indmar and he has done this to motors in boats that were submerged with no problems. It's also an old mechanic's trick and still works. If the stuff is emulsified enough, it won't drain down at all unless the motor gets really hot. I have worked on motors that had this and it just sits there. ATF is the same way. I heated some of that up and it eventually separated but it wasn't worth the time, just as an experiment for future knowledge. If the crankcase is a quart low and there's a bunch of the milky stuff in there, the bad will mix with the new oil and that's about teh only way to drain it out through the oil pan. I've done this and it works. Granted, some of the motors had cracked blocks, but until they were run hard, the water didn't go back into the crankcase. One had a 3" hole in the #3 cylinder wall and a bunch of metal chunks in the oil pan, so there wasn't much point in fixing it.

I agree that a leak-down test should be done, along with a vacuum test. The vacuum test will generally be a good indication of the motor's health.

Have them magna-flux the head. It's cheap and tells if it's cracked.

Fel-Pro makes marine gaskets that aren't stainless but I generally prefer the stainless ones. No gasket sealant on the head gaskets and only around the water ports and at the intersection of the head and block on the intake manifold gasket."
 
"I've heard of swamped eng

"I've heard of swamped engines treated to Kerosene or diesel. Literally, pull the plugs and drain plug, roll it over to push out water and literally fill the engine/cylinders/intake to the point of overflow with kerosene. drain. repeat."
 
"They are doing a magnaflux, t

"They are doing a magnaflux, testing for warp, and a valve job, just to be on the safe side. Cap'n K's down the street should have a stainless head gasket I can pick up tomorrow. Now I just have to find kerosene.

Just out of curiosity, How does a head gasket 'not hold up'?"
 
"As many a old mechanic has la

"As many a old mechanic has later found after using kerosene in the engine the bearings failed.
Reason for this is a old engine with poor matainance will have deposits dislogded by the kerosene that can later find thier way into the bearings. I have seen this TRICK done more than once by old time mechanics and the out come is the same. A new engine is needed soon after.

If the normal oil does not remove the deposits then the engine should be taken apart and cleaned. This is the correct way of making sure the engine will not fail later from deposits left from water,old gasket removal,carbon,etc. A engine that has been under water for a short period is not the same as one that has been run with water in the oil. Since water is heavier than oil it is going to end up in the pan sooner or later. Fresh water can be drained very easy. Oil mixed with water is not going to come out as easy. But adding kerosene or whatever else is around, is not doing you any good in the long run.
Something could come off the inside of the block that was loosened by the kerosene and make its way into a bearing. Once one bearing starts to go the material from that starts to work on the remaining bearings. So a month, two or three the engine goes. Are you even going to think about this kerosene trick or just think that it is just a bad engine?
I do not think you will find any PROFFESIONAL modern repair shop adding kerosene to someones engine oil. For any reason. I'm sorry but I am a proffesional and do not believe in D-F ideas like adding kerosene or quick fixes. Not even in a old boat. Do it right or not at all. Just my opinion. I wish you luck."
 
"I'm not into quick fixes-

"I'm not into quick fixes- when I work on something, I want it to work forever but the guy I talked to said it has worked long-term for him, even though I agree that a complete teardown is really the best way. Re: water on the oil in the crankcase, that is totally different and it will drain out pretty easily. Kerosene, being heavier and more viscous than gas will be less of a problem that running a motor for an extremely long time between oil changes, though.

I'm not sure a lot of water got in and I haven't read that it was more than just a little but I haven't seen the motor.

Edit-
****** I just saw the post about filling it to overflowing- I wouldn't do that. If it's going to be full of solvent, it should be in a parts washer after complete disassembly.*****"
 
"If they're doing a valve

"If they're doing a valve job, etc on one head, how much more would they charge for the pair? Symmetry is a good thing in this case.

Gaskets can fail for a variety of reasons. I have seen incorrectly torqued bolts cause it, broken bolts, gasket sealant used on heads and intake manifold, then overheated and the sealant was pushed out by the heat and compression Then, after there was a small gap, the exhaust gases kept blowing through and burned the material away completely (about 1-1/2" was missing). Pretty well explained the 0 lb of compression on #2 and 15 lb on #3 (this was a 351 Ford in a Ski Nautique).

Overheats are particularly hard on them. Correct torque and tightening pattern, good quality parts and completely avoiding overheats and freezing is good insurance. Make sure the impeller is in good condition (don't leave it in for several seasons, no matter what anyone says), if there's a strainer on the oil cooler, make sure that's kept clear."
 
"This motor probably has less

"This motor probably has less than 200 hours on it, even though it's a '93. The water got in the oil because I did not doublecheck the torque of the intake manifold bolts (as Jim said). The front 2 bolts were loose enough not to completely seal the water passage leading into the right head. There should be very little leftover creamed oil in the system when I am done with the rebuild.

I will be using vacuum to get most of what is hanging around the interior, so that's not a real problem.

re: If they're doing a valve job, etc on one head, how much more would they charge for the pair? Symmetry is a good thing in this case.

That side (left) has not been touched. As crazy as all of this has been I really don't want to introduce any more possibilities for disaster."
 
As long as the head gaskets ar

As long as the head gaskets are the same height you may get by. Not recomended. As for cost most times double. It is the same amount of work on each head. If the shop finds bad guides or other problems with the head it is best to have the other one done as well. If the head is bad and needs replaced you need to find the same model / size head. There are many different GM heads out there. They must match. If they are not the same one could have larger or smaller valves or larger or smaller compression chamber. This will cause uneven compression from side to side. Same with the head gasket. Thicker will reduce the compression thinner will increase it.
 
"You have it apart- 8 more bol

"You have it apart- 8 more bolts and one gasket shouldn't be enough to keep you from doing this right.

Some shops will do a pair for slightly less than doing two at different times. I would ask for a deal on the pair. You really want the heads to be the same.

If you have ever thought that a little more juice would be nice, this is the time to do it. They can port and polish the heads or anything else they recommend. Shaving them will give you slightly higher compression but if it's really hot and dry where you usually run this boat, I would consider getting the additional power some other way.

One thing to remember when tearing a motor apart- drain it first. It's an easy thing to forget and I would bet that this is how the water got in."
 
"One last comment on the keros

"One last comment on the kerosene commentary... the "fill it up" was anicdotal referring to swamped engines - which are now junk as they will never be the same again anyway. Didnt intend to mislead as this is not Phillip's case.

Phillip - consider fixing the problems you state, getting as much out as possible and then running it up to temp and keeping it running for a few hours. The water should burn off.

That said, I'm a car guy and have see a lot of "foam" resulting from head gasket problems. Never seen the "kerosene clean-out" drill applied. My approach would be to let it burn off depending on how much is there. Just thoughts."
 
The head should be done today.

The head should be done today.

I will post the results and let everyone know what I eventually did about the problems I found.

Caution- I am long winded and detailed.
 
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