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1972 22b Reinell Cuddy Boat OMC 225 help%3cIMG SRC%3d%22httpwwwmarineenginecomdiscuscliparthappygif%22 ALT%3d%22%22 BORDER%3d0%3e

treemonkey

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"Hello All,

Great forum! T


"Hello All,

Great forum! Thanks for being here!!

Let me start by saying I'm completely new to inboard/outboard boats other than browsing this forum (VERY informative). A few days ago I acquired a 1972 22' Reinell Cuddy Boat with an OMC 225 HP V8 (Model #990211 F) and the stern drive just says "225 HP" on it (Model #980310). Is this a Chevy 305? Are marine 305s and car 305s different?

Hull, interior, electrical, glass, etc. in great shape but seller said motor was 'seized'. Carb is missing and inside of intake manifold has rust everywhere. Strangely, there's a brand new set of exhaust manifolds installed. Stern drive has a crack in it. Almost scared me away when I saw the name of this boat...Money Pit. Is it true changing a boat's name is bad luck


I really like the boat and want to take on an engine rebuild or replacement project this Winter. What are my options for a low cost repair or replacement? I can wrench pretty good and have the means to pick the motor and such. Locally on craigslist there are tons of boats with crappy trailers/hulls/interiors but running motors that I can get for next to nothing right now but not seeing many over 200 HP and not sure what will work in my boat.

Any suggestions to get me in the water without spending huge money are much appreciated!"
 
"money pit pretty accurate...

"money pit pretty accurate...

There are few options for your situation but to continue to evaluate what you have. Taking an ice pick to the floor and transom looking for rotten wood is first. Books like "Runabout Restoration" and others may help you.

Seized engine and cracked drive sounds like a landfill boat. If the drive is seized the engine will appear seized so pulling the drive and retrying the engine a good idea. Usually a seized stringer drive will steer hard one way when you try to crank the engine over and then the engine will lock.
Parting it out onto eBay and pushing it in the dump is the most common approach to an old OMC stringer powered boat of that vintage.

Only affordable thing (and affordable is all relative) I can think of if the hull is sound, is to look for another similar boat that has an excellent OMC drive and engine with a trashed hull and make 1 boat out of two.
That's tricky and risky, and you will end up in the end with a boat that has little market value due to the electric shift OMC drive.
If you don't have a fair budget you will never enjoy an old OMC powered boat much, but can be an EXCELLENT boat if you want to dedicate yourself to learning all about OMC electric shift stringer drives. Many people have logged many many hours on a meticulously maintained electric shift OMC stringer. Many more have neglected them and have grown to hate them. They have the worst reputation of any sterndrive ever produced.
That said... there was a guy I talked to recently that had logged almost 2000 hours on 1 that had been in the same family for decades and had only ever had fluid changes, w/p impellers, and a couple of reseals...
more common is the story of the guy that tried to fix everything on the cheap without special tools or manuals and threw some good money in, went down the lake once and blew everything up

The engine would have been a 307 originally in that boat. It's similar to a 305 and physically very similar to all small block Chevy V8's of that era. 283,327,350 etc... all used the same basic engine block config. with different bores and strokes...the 305 version didn't get produced by chev until about 1976.

The seized engine could be any of those as they are such an easy swap. A lot of 307's got replaced with 350's over the years.

Marine engines use the same basic "long block" assembly as a car but marine version has different cam, head gaskets, core plugs, and all electrical and fuel system parts, and exhaust are marine specific"
 
"Thank you for your post hista

"Thank you for your post histat! I like this boat and want to repower it somehow. I've just been offered a Volvo Penta 211 w/270 outdrive that runs well with good, even compression still in the boat for testing. Can I just swap out the whole OMC set up for it or are there fitment issues with that? The man needs tree service I happen to own one so my costs would be almost $0. I'm not trying to be el-cheapo here but if I don't figure out a creative, low-cost way to make Money Pit drive across the water my only other option IS the landfill. I'm much less concerned with marketable value of the boat in the end, I just want to get 'er out on the water and I'm hoping a donar boat can help me out. Are the biggest issues with interchangeability the transom hole? Motor mounts?

Thanks again!!"
 
"no to the 270, the OMC transo

"no to the 270, the OMC transom hole is bigger than any other manuf. including Volvo. As i said - evaluate the hull before making all these dreamy plans.
With time, $1000 or so for parts and materials, and fiberglassing know-how, You can rebuild the transom to accept the Volvo, but if you were to redo the transom, you would logically go with the most plentiful manuf., which is Mercruiser, not Volvo for reasons of parts availability and cost

If you want a hull with a Volvo cutout - look for one.

now go stab at all the wood with an ice pick. Get a hole saw and cut the floor open to look for waterlogged foam and rotten stringers. Get a book - your local library might have the one I mentioned above"
 
we're reading your mind no

we're reading your mind now....if you are thinking
"Can I seal the hole and put an outboard bracket on it?"
-that really never works
 
"Ha! You know this $#!% in an

"Ha! You know this $#!% in and out, don't you? I appreciate your info even if it is packaged in a big, dark, storm-cloud. I sure was thinking of hooking my 15hp outboard to the kicker mount and riding off into the sunset
Really though, why does sealing the hole and putting an outboard on not usually work?

I'm gonna get the book today when the boy wakes up from his nap. I had already planned to go through the flooring and look for rot. If needed, I would take on the woodwork project of replacing Money Pit's flooring but if this thing has rotten stringers along with this motor situation I'm gonna start stripping and ebaying. The brand new exhaust manifolds and risers have to be worth something.

My newest dreamy plan is to replace my OMC with another OMC. That said, I'm finding tons of running OMCs around (I live in Seattle) but have found not one OMC 225. Can I replace my OMC 225 with an OMC 140 or something similar and common without doing the transom redo (which I wouldn't even attempt). Is the transom hole a year specific thing requiring me to interchange with a motor of a specific vintage? I need to narrow my engine search down to something that a tree monkey, and not a grease monkey, can just bolt in.

Finally, this will reveal how green I really am to all this but before I got the cover on we had a rain squall that left a few inches of water in the bottom of the engine compartment (blidge?). There is a blidge pump but I don't have a live battery to fire it. May have even gotten into the cuddy as well...how do I remove it!?"
 
"Update: Went to Barnes and No

"Update: Went to Barnes and Noble last night. Out of 100 books in nautical section, none on restoration of fiberglass ones. Library had runabout restoration, but for wood boats. I will keep looking.

I made cutout in floor, no water or rot. Transom wood is solid with no rot. Some spots on flooring getting soft and will need to be replaced.

Found a 1973 OMC 120, 4 cylinder and wondering if it will work in place of my v8 225. If so, would the boat be drastically underpowered? Most areas we hang out in are 7 knots, but want to make sure it would move the boat through waves if needed. This motor as been completely rebuilt and hasn't even been started yet (has receipts w/numbers). Just needs wiring to ignition, starter and coil. I think he'll take $300. Here is the link: http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/boa/865510817.html

Please let me know your thoughts and thanks!"
 
"you don't want a 140. The

"you don't want a 140. The engine pictured is probably a 120HP anyways. The tilt doesn't work on it - he's left the straps holding the drive up in the pic

Your boat would be too underpowered with either 120 or 140. V8 is what you need. That drive in seattle also looks like a low profile drive..hard to see exactly, but see how low in the transom the cutout is... I'll bet yours is high profile. A low profile drive wouldn't put the prop deep enough in the water as it is 4" shorter ball gear to propshaft dimension. You can measure the drive to compare.

If that boat was in my neighbourhood, I would go buy it for $400 cash. The drive will fetch twice that or more on eBay. The trailer would fetch $900 this time of year. I can sell an uncracked engine like that in the spring for $800 if it has good compression and runs ok..

Steering cable $75
etc etc...

but being in salt water it could be all junk too. I get fair prices because we have no salt."
 
"Jeez, good eye, on the money

"Jeez, good eye, on the money once again! My transom is way higher, thank you! He told me about the tilt and that he had a new one to go with it, just not installed yet. Did you like the black spray paint to hide the 'white boat anchor'?

So I called him and told him no go but if he really had trouble getting rid of it (which he won't) to call me and I may part it out. I just don't have the extra time or space to fool with a third boat as I expect to be hauling a donor home very soon. V8 it is, that's what I preferred anyway, don't really want to be underpowered.

There are some outstanding deals popping up on craigslist around here this time of season. Just hope I can find a good stringer drive (if there is such a thing) and a running 225hp, which seems more rare. Surely they couldn't have all died and rusted by now!"
 
"350 Chevy engines are are a d

"350 Chevy engines are are a dime a dozen. You can use any 1962 to 1986 283, 307, 305, 327 or 350. 350 best. You just swap all your marine parts over to the basic block. Entire fuel system, and all electrical. Edelbrock make marine quadrajet carburetors. Lots of sellers on eBay with new and rebuilt marine carbs too.

To make the car/truck block marine, you simply change the camshaft to a marine one (or use the one out of your boat if it is salvageable), and head gaskets and replace the tin core plugs with brass core plugs.

But, See if there's anything wrong with your engine first. Pull the spark plugs, drain the oil, crank your head upside down with a bright flashlight and look for popped core plugs or cracks that would indicate freeze damage and see what you are working with.

What on the sterndrive is cracked?"
 
"Yeah, that's a high profi

"Yeah, that's a high profile drive.
Looks like just the upper gearcase that is cracked and I'm not even sure I would care with it being cracked like that..it's just where the tilt quadrant bolts on..probably been like that for decades. If you wanted, a good used case would go for about $50 on eBay, but requires some special tools to set up gears into the case.
The lower unit's probably fine, drain and check the oil before winter- if there's water in there it can freeze and cause damage.

Also tilt the drive down for winter storage, or cover that exhaust port at least- rain will run in there and freeze, cracking the water pump impeller hsg.

I was picturing something much worse. You might be throwing a carb on and going boating. Looks like a new ball gear. I see you have the garden hose flushing adapter on the drive. That's a nice bonus.

The engine might be stuck from rain running in the open intake. There's lots of "squirt in the spark plug holes" type products out there like Marvel mystery oil that can help you free up rings with a bit of patience and finesse.

I would be pressure testing the engine to check for cracks. "
 
"Now that's some great new

"Now that's some great news! Glad you tell it like it is, good or bad. Should I consider just welding that crack and calling it good enough?

I checked the lower unit oil and although a bit dark and smelly, no water or metal shavings. Hand-spinning the prop reveals no sticky spots or noises, it feels really smooth. I did however discover picture one, broken fin on bottom of lower unit. What's the significance of this?

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo358/treemonkey2/P1010016_0004.jpg"

I'm going to research pressure testing the engine, or maybe hire someone to do it. I figured out that the engine compartment is easily removeable totally exposing that engine. I once rebuilt a chevy 350 (20 years ago), once, but I'm prepared to tear into this one to see what I got, what can be used and what can't. So if no leaks I will try to free this motor up. Honestly I haven't even tried to turn it over yet, just going on previous owners calling it 'seized'. Before I do I assume I should change oil? Maybe check rods and rockers? Soaking the rings...brilliant!

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo358/treemonkey2/P1010005_0004.jpg""
 
I loaded my cylinders up with

I loaded my cylinders up with diesel fuel and let it soak for two weeks. I think I only had one "stuck" cylinder luckily rather than several. There are plenty of penetrating oil type products out there to chose from.
 
"from the www:
[i]THE CASE OF


"from the www:
THE CASE OF THE STUCK ENGINE


All restorers have run across an engine that has seized up from lack of use. You will hear many stories of how to break such an engine free. The trick is to break it free without "breaking the engine." We have even seen, on a rare occasion a stuck motor revived and run fine.

First, pull all the spark plugs. Our secret recipe formula elixir is ½ Marvel Mystery Oil and ½ Automatic transmission fluid. Fill each cylinder with this mixture and let it sit for a couple weeks. Using a large breaker bar and socket on the end of the crankshaft try to turn the engine ever so slightly each way. Each time, moving the turn a little more, until you have turned the engine over. If this does not work, remove the cylinder heads.
"
 
Same as what Hy Stat posted.

Same as what Hy Stat posted. It did take some doing but we got it loose. I was concerned that there would be rust chunks or particles floating around the inside but oil changes have actually been pretty clean. A farmer I use to talk to said that he once shot Coca-Cola into the cylinders of an old farm tractor that was seized from lack of use. He claimed that Coke ate rust like crazy. Imagine what that stuff does to our stomachs ugh!
 
I used the marvel oil on my bo

I used the marvel oil on my boat when seized. I left it for a week . the engine runs fine with good oil pressure and cylinder pressure. JUST BE PATIENT WITH TURNING THE CRANK WITH THE BREAKER BAR !!!!!!
 
"Just an update:

Drained th


"Just an update:

Drained the oil, there was roughly 2 gallons of crystal clear water that came out first, then another couple of gallons of filthy oil; that can't be good!

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo358/treemonkey2/P1010023_0004.jpg"

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo358/treemonkey2/P1010026_0001.jpg"

The neat thing was how some previous owner tapped the pan with a drain hose. Problem is I can see daylight around it from inside transom. That can't be good either!! While I ordered the 1973 307 OMC 225 Sterndrive manual (original motor) I'm having a really hard time finding the owner's manual. Would help me figure things out.

I also pulled my plugs and filled the cylinders with marvels mystery oil and some into the oil fill too. It's been sitting a few days now. Some plugs were devastated with rust.

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo358/treemonkey2/P1010036_0004.jpg"

After charging the battery a few days I hooked it up today and found most all electrical worked including blower, bildge pump, lights, etc. This poor motor has rat turds in it. I've definitely got my winter project!!

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo358/treemonkey2/P1010018_0001.jpg"

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo358/treemonkey2/P1010031_0004.jpg""
 
"Just another suggestion on fr

"Just another suggestion on freeing a frozen engine. You can use all the previous suggestions and potions but there is an easy way of forcing the mixture between the piston and cylinder walls. The device pictured may be commercially available but this one was made by brazing an air fitting onto the shell of an old spark plug. You could probably even use the flexible end from a compression tester. The device is used in conjunction with an air compressor to apply 100 or more pounds pressure to the top of the piston. This forces the oil mixture between the piston and the cylinder. At the same time it exerts a downward force of over 1200 pounds to the top of a four inch piston. If you use two of these, you can "T" the air fitting and double the amount of force exerted on the crankshaft. The valves of course must both be closed on the cylinder you are working on...this can be done by loosening the rocker arms to close the valves. You can also figure which cylinders when pressurized will turn the crankshaft in the same direction. I have used this method many times on 2 and 4 cycle engines and it is usually effective
220245.jpg
air fitting"">
220246.jpg
adapter in place
 
"2 gallons of water says crack

"2 gallons of water says cracked block - pressure test it, but engine is probably junk unless it was rain running in - more than likely cracked"
 
"Robert, Daniel, Bob, thanks f

"Robert, Daniel, Bob, thanks for your replies. Your information is on point! Hy Stat, one pressure test coming up!!"
 
"Everyone wanted to compressio

"Everyone wanted to compression test it (with no moving pistons) and nobody seemed to know how to pressure test it.

Well I got impatient and tore the engine down to the block. The cylinder walls have a coating of rust and some of them have rust and crap just sitting in them. I couldn't find any cracks in the block or heads. Even the head gaskets looked pretty good. I think the water that got in was rain water. My Mystery oil was definitely everywhere in the motor. All the lifters, rocker arms and push rods were in fine shape. Pistons look pretty good. Exhaust manifolds appear to have not even been heated yet. My engine/drive manual should be here any day.

The golden question at this stage...do I persue cleaning and freeing this motor? Take it to a machine shop? Just replace it?

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo358/treemonkey2/P1010056_0004.jpg"

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo358/treemonkey2/P1010062_0003.jpg"

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo358/treemonkey2/P1010068_0003.jpg"

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo358/treemonkey2/P1010069_0003.jpg"

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo358/treemonkey2/P1010071_0003.jpg""
 
"If you need cylinder boring i

"If you need cylinder boring it adds up quick. Other machine shop work may sound reasonable at first but when you add it all up being its an 8 cylinder it adds up quickly. Thats taking into account you have a shop that you trust and live somewhat close to. I had a engine built for my truck a few years ago at a shop that I thought I did my research on. I made several trips to the shop in person as the owner didn't like returning my phone calls. It ate up alot of my time which was very frustrating. Over one year later (was told 6 months initially) and almost one thousand dollars more than the initial price quote, I had my motor. In the end I would have been both time and money ahead just buying a crate motor that was ready to drop in.

I'm not sure if anyone sells stock replacement type marine crate motors. GM crate motors clearly state they are not intended for marine use."
 
Just found reman'd marine

Just found reman'd marine long blocks for $1150 from a place in Florida. This place offers other versions but this one is a Chevy rated at 260 hp which probably is the max power you'd want to throw at your drive. I'd post a link but I'm not sure if thats violating any rules of this board. If a mod gives me a thumbs up I will post it.
 
"Great I appreciate it! I&#39

"Great I appreciate it! I'm also finding tons of used blocks, heads and intakes locally, online (craigslist). There's even a few 307s I could probably convert over to marine using my cam, electrical, etc. but maybe I would be well served just throwing a marine 350 in. These things are like $200-$500 running around here right now. I'm thinking pull this motor and move on, looks like a heck of a project cleaning it up but then again I'm not engine rebuilder.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the machine shop. I know how it goes, I have a Ram 3500 at the tranny shop now for almost 2 months. Estimated time to replace old with reman...2 days!"
 
"[i]Well I got impatient and t

"Well I got impatient and tore the engine down to the block

Honestly, I'd either reassemble it and pressure test it, OR I'd throw it in the scrap bin - pressure testing is the only way to find cracks. Now that it's apart there's no way to know if it's any good and putting $1000 worth of parts and dozens of hours of labour to rebuild it is not worth the risk.

Never disassemble anything without diagnosing the problem.

I would buy a new crate 350 (they are about $1700)and pop in a marine cam and brass core plugs, or I would buy a used engine that I could hear running and compression and pressure test before buying.
Again - you need to pressure test - learn how if no one around your area does it - youtube it

Rebuilt engines are just not worth the money in my opinion. I have worked in a rebuild shop. The "redo" rate is about 20% in the better shops. That's too risky for me."
 
"Hy Stat, could you list some

"Hy Stat, could you list some place (s) that sell new marine "crate" motors rather than reman'd? The only new crate motors I have found are for automotive use and they say not recommended for marine use."
 
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