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Mercury 135 HP 30L MPI with catalyst

G

gschulte

New member
"I just purchased a 2009 Ebbti

"I just purchased a 2009 Ebbtide 192 SE with the new Mercury 135 HP 3.0L MPI with catalyst engine. Before you start on about the 3.0L, I had no choice. The club I belong to has a length and HP restriction. I would like to know if it is possible to remove the catalyst to increase performance? Can the computer program be changed to increase performance? From my experience the performance is not the same as a 3.0L with a 2-barrel carburetor. The MPI is worse. It starts better and idles smoother but I think the catalyst is hampering the overall performance."
 
Did not know they were shippin

Did not know they were shipping engines with
catalytic converters or MPI on the 3.0. All they show on their website is carb with EST ignition. What type did you have experience
with the 3.0 previously?
 
"The engine isn't listed b

"The engine isn't listed but is available. I had to special order it to get it and it cost me $2,600 extra. I picked up my boat at the Ebbtide factory and was told that it was the first time they had installed a 3.0 MPI. The 3.0 without MPI in the same boat had a top end of 37 mph with a 19 pitch Black Max Prop. My 3.0 MPI with the same prop will only get 31 mph @ 4500 rpm. i am thinking that the catalyst may be keeping the engine from performing better."
 
"[b]"I had to special orde

""I had to special order it to get it and it cost me $2,600 extra."

Ayuh,... Why,..??..??

Why would you Special order something, only to start Ripping it about, so you can Re-engineer a fix to a problem you Know exists,..??..??

If the motor isn't even On the market yet,...
I Doubt any of Us have seen it,....
I Haven't...."
 
"Ayuh,... why do you think??

"Ayuh,... why do you think?? There is always one in every crowd and you are obviously it. I am not ripping anything, just want to get the best possible performance I can. If you do not ask the question then you will never find out.}"
 
"if you can get cat off, just

"if you can get cat off, just hollow the monolithic meterial out of it and re install.
yes, you will see a nominal improvment.
it's very time consuming to reflash ecm if you don't have the experience so I would look to a car tuner and have him look at fuel tables and timing curves. being a boat it would be trial by error.
May just want to consider changing enrichment mode for full throttle and full throttle advance.

Kurt"
 
"Greg:

Bondo is a highly

"Greg:

Bondo is a highly respected member of this board whose years of marine service experience is invaluable to many of us and other boaters.

Just a thought:

Don't pitch the guts in the trash; it's worth money. You might play w/props a little and use a variety of premium octane fuels to see what the engine can do. Keeps some records of your results and let us all know. Thanks for your contribution.
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"
 
"Greg
Be very carefull that y

"Greg
Be very carefull that you are not about to void an engine warranty by removing the cat, if I had supplied you an engine set up to run a cat and you removed it during the warranty period I would be telling you where to shove it if you came to me with a warranty issue. The same would apply to re mapping the computer.

I think I would have been looking for another club. (just kidding ) investigate Guys suggestions first, look at a Higher octane fuels and re pitch the prop, consider a 4 or 5 blader.

By the way Greg, Guy is right about Bondo, I may not agree with everything he says but his knowledge is vast and is well respected around here.

Cheers
Peter C"
 
"It was just a matter of time

"It was just a matter of time before these threads started. The cat equipped engines are just starting to hit the market and it's a little too soon for answers on how to mod/remove the emissions equipment. There are pre and post catylist oxygen sensors that will have to be simulated or the ECM reprogrammed to not expect to see input from these sensors.

I think you should just enjoy the boat as is, maybe a year or two from now your questions can be answered."
 
"Upstream would not need to be

"Upstream would not need to be simulated as this is used for o2 feedback for ecm and would perform just as it did before.
and for down stream sensor cat efficiency monitor, There are already
phantom o2 simulators available and I have seen
many work fine just being left in open air. No codes were set. Even if you did, it would only be a cat efficiency threshold code and not hamper
performance in any way shape or form. There may be a question of federal laws involved but without emmisions testing for boats....

Kurt"
 
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You could remove it. you would get O2 faults.
With the OBDM (09) ECM someone will soon be writing flash programs for timing kicks and other re-maps.
Do a search online for OBDM reflash programs.
My .02/ leave things be and keep up on recomended maintance."
 
"Here is some more info on why

"Here is some more info on why I asked the question. I test drove a 2007 Ebbtide 192 SE with a 3.0L carbureted engine last year. That boat had a top speed of 37 mph @ 4800 rpm with a Black Max 19 pitch prop. I ordered and took delivery of my 2009 Ebbtide 192 SE with the new 3.0 MPI in June. The performance is noticeably different between the two boats. I can only get 31 mph @ 4600 rpm with a Back Max 19 pitch prop. The boats are identical with the exception of the engine. I would have thought that I would at least get the same performance as the engine with a carburetor. Why is the rpm lower and the top speed slower. They also have the same drive and gear ratio on them. The MPI engine starts better, idols smoother and runs well but is slacking on the low-end torque and top speed. I owned a 3.0 with a carb and got tired of the maintenance so the MPI sounded like the answer. I have a hp restriction at the club I belong to or I would have a larger engine and this would be a mood point. I also slalom at 34-36 mph and the new boat just won’t get there. This is why I am hoping a program change or removal of the catalyst will help. I knew it would have the catalyst but did not expect the difference in performance.

I have tried a High Five 19, High Five 21, Michigan Wheel Apollo four blade 20 and Michigan Wheel Black Max three blade 19.

I have the speed data and time to 20mph, 25mph and 30mph recorded for each. The speed was recorded with GPS and time was recorded with a stopwatch. I am afraid to go to a 21 pitch because of the loss on the low end, and do not want to go to a 17 pitch due to the loss on the top end.

The best all around prop so far has been the High Five 19. Good hole shot and top end was 31mph.

Black Max 19: 20mph 10, 25mph 12, 30mph 20
Top Speed 31.2mph @ 4600rpm

High Five 19: 20mph 9.5, 25mph 12.48 30mph 22
Top Speed 31mph @ 4600rpm

High Five 21: 20mph 11.5, 25mph 15.14, 30mph 22.14
Top Speed 30.7mph @ 4300rpm

Apollo 4 blade 20: 20mph 10.3, 25mph 16.9, 30mph 21
Top Speed 31.3mph @ 4400rpm

I still have an Enertia 20 and Mirage 19 to test.

I am not sure why the EPA would care what I do at this point. I am in Illinois and am not legally obligated to have catalyst until 2010. My Ebbtide is a 2009."
 
There is a sticker on the side

There is a sticker on the side of the ECM (computer). It should be MY09.
 
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